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Paula Núñez
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: El Bable |
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Mi madre salió muy joven de Aviles y vivió toda su vida en el sur, pero recuerdo que de vez en cuando le salia alguna palabra "rara" nos quedabamos mirandola y ella contestaba: vaya, no sabia que recordara esta palabra.
Lo que mas gracia me hacia era cuando tropezaba que siempre me decia. tencuidado que te mancas. no se si se dice así o ella lo fué alterando con el tiempo.
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Trans. Is
My mother left Aviles at a young age and she lived most of her life in southern Spain. But I recall that, once in a while, an odd word would pop up into her vocabulary and we would just stare at her. Then she would say, 'Geez, I don't remember remembering that word'.
What I really enjoyed is that whenever I tripped over something as a girl, she would tell me to be careful and not to 'mancame' [to get hurt, in Asturian]. I don't know if that's the way it's said or if she altered her way of speaking over time. |
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Is
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Raff tomatoes, from Almeria |
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Bonas, Paula. Vamos deprendete una migayina d'asturiano, seique el miou asturiano nun ia'l mesmo que falaba tua mia. D'au yera el.la? [de donde era tu madre?]
N'asturianu, dizse 'mancar' pa cuando te fais mal. Por exemplu:
'Mancouse la rapacina na corte' [Se hizo dano la nina en el establo'.
'Mancastete, ho? [Te hiciste dano?]
En castel.lan dizse 'hacerse dano', eso ia lo que decia el.la cuando de nena yeras patosina.
Esperamos que t'afayes nesti foru. You tuve entrevistando vei pouco a unos cientificos de una inxenieria francesa que tan a la gueta de la formula maxica pa esportar el tomate Raff d'Almeria a America del Norte.
Podrias falanos del Raff no foru? A min prestaria abondo...
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hi Paula. Since you asked, we'll try to teach you a few things in Asturian. Even though my Asturian is probably not the one your mother spoke. Where was she from?
In Asturian, we use the verb 'mancar' as an equivalent to 'get hurt'. For example:
'Mancouse la rapacina na corte.' [The little girl got hurt in the cowshed]'
'Mancastete, ho? [Did you get hurt?]
In Castilian Spanish, the equivalent is 'hacerse dano'. That's whay your mother used to tell you when you tripped on the street as a little girl. She was saying, 'Watch out, don't trip and hurt yourself.'
Welcome to the forum. I recently nterviewed some scientists about cryo-preservation techniques for the Raff tomato. Since you're from Almeria, where the Raff grows, it would be interesting for us if you could tell us about that tomato variety.
Apparently, the farmers in Almeria want to export Raff tomatoes to the US... |
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Paula Núñez
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Raff tomatoes, from Almeria |
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Bueno, mi asturiano es muy malo, tan malo que lo entiendo por intuición...  pero agradecería unas clases para ir aprendiendo...
Sobre los tomates raff, solo se que estan muy ricos y que son muy caros...  y no se si es buena idea exportarlos tan lejos... !! nos vamos a quedar sin ellos !!
Saludos.
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Translated by Bob
Well, my Asturian is very bad, so bad that I understand it only by intuition. , But I would be grateful to learn about any classes that would help me learn it. About the Raff tomatoes, all I know is that they are very delicious and very expensive And that it is not a good idea to export them too far. Then we would be left without any. |
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Courio
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Raff tomatoes, from Almeria |
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Sólo una Puntualización. Del Diccionario de la Real Academia Española:
| Quote: | mancar.
(De manco).
1. tr. Lisiar, estropear, herir las manos u otros miembros de alguien, imposibilitando el libre uso de alguno de ellos. U. t. c. prnl.
2. tr. lastimar (‖ herir).
3. tr. p. us. Hacer manco o defectuoso.
4. intr. ant. Faltar, dejarse de hacer algo por falta de alguien. |
Acabo de registrarme y justo ahora me tengo que ir corriendo. Tenéis un foro muy interesante, espero pasarme por aquí con más calma.
Saludos. |
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cmtorres
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Asunción
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
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¡Hola Is!
¿Ú deprendiste falar n'asturianu? Pues yo deprendílu n'internet, lleyendo muncho les páxines asturianes y faciendo usu del Diccionariu de l'Academia de la Llingua Asturiana, que tiens disponible nel sitiu de l'Academia. Si bien la mio güela ye fía d'asturianu, nun deprendió la llingua, solo delles pallabres.
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Trans. Is
hi Is! Where did you learn Asturian? I learned it online, reading website texts and using the dictionary of the Academy of the Asturian Language, which is posted on their website. Even though my grandmother is the daughter of an Asturian, she never mastered the language other than a few words.
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Is
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 832
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| cmtorres wrote: | | ¡Hola Is! ¿Ú deprendiste falar n'asturianu? |
Bonas, cmtorres. Ia bien celebre que deprendieras asturianu tando tan l.lonxe d'Asturias (Asuncion, Paraguay). You seique tampouco nun sou un casu tipicu porque sou metade norteamericanu ya la l.lingua materna ia l'ingles. Pero de tar muitu cona mia guelina de rapacin ya de pasar vacaciones nas aldeas (mious pais al.lugaban casas d'aldea daquel.la), d'ehi vien que deprendiera la fala. Outra cousa tamen influiu abondo: nunca nun tuviera nuna escuela espanola, que ia au deprenden a los nenos qu'eso del asturianu ya'l gal.lego ia 'hablar mal'. El problema de fondu seique ia esi, que los prexuicios contra la l.lingua son istitucionales n'Asturias ya la l.lingua nun ia oficial--cumo lo ia na comunida vecina de Galicia.
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Hi cmtorres. I think it's great that you've learned Asturian even though you live so far away (Asuncion, Paraguay). I'm not really a typical case, linguistically speaking, because I'm half American and my mother tongue is English. But from growing up with my grandmother and spending holidays at a very early age in small villages (my parents rented farms at the time), that's where I really learned to speak. Another thing that helped was the fact that I never went through the Spanish schooling system where they teach kids that speaking Asturian or Galician is to speak 'incorrectly'. That's the core of the problem in Asturias. It's really about institutionalized prejudice against the language and it's lack of legal status--unlike Galician in neighboring Galicia. |
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cmtorres
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Asunción
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Is wrote: | | cmtorres wrote: | | ¡Hola Is! ¿Ú deprendiste falar n'asturianu? |
Bonas, cmtorres. Ia bien celebre que deprendieras asturianu tando tan l.lonxe d'Asturias (Asuncion, Paraguay). You seique tampouco nun sou un casu tipicu porque sou metade norteamericanu ya la l.lingua materna ia l'ingles. Pero de tar muitu cona mia guelina de rapacin ya de pasar vacaciones nas aldeas (mious pais al.lugaban casas d'aldea daquel.la), d'ehi vien que deprendiera la fala. Outra cousa tamen influiu abondo: nunca nun tuviera nuna escuela espanola, que ia au deprenden a los nenos qu'eso del asturianu ya'l gal.lego ia 'hablar mal'. El problema de fondu seique ia esi, que los prexuicios contra la l.lingua son istitucionales n'Asturias ya la l.lingua nun ia oficial--cumo lo ia na comunida vecina de Galicia.
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¡Hola, Is! Ye mui bonitu que teas l'oportunidá de visitar Asturies, coles sos aldees ya fermosos campos. Ties razón al dicir que'l preblema de la llingua ye institucional. Si les autoridaes españoles nun facen nada al respeutu, la nuesa llingua vai despaecer dientro de poco tiempu.
Nun sei si sabes del sitiu de l'Academia de la llingua. Pues baxar el llibru de gramática y el d'ortografía del asturianu gratuitamente. Ye asina que toi deprendiendo la correuta escritura normalizada.
Teo entendío que la to madre ye asturiana. ¿De que ciudá ye la to to familia? La mio güela ye fía d'asturianu de Pola de Somiéu.
¿Cómo poemos facer pa ter contautu permanente? Asina pueo tar en constante práutica de la nuesa llingua.
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Trans. Is
hi Is! It's nice that you've been able to visit Asturias with its villages and countryside. You're right when you say the language problem is institutionally rooted. If Spanish authorities don't act, our language will disappear very soon. I don't know if you're aware that you can download a grammar and spelling guidelines for free from the website of the Asturian Language Academy. That's how I've learned to write in the standardized language. As far as I know, is it your mother who is Asturian? My grandmother's father was from Pola de Somieu. How can we keep in touch? It'd be a good way to practice the language.
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Villamil
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Uviéu
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Is: El to asturianu peimeque ye munchu más dixebrau al central que'l occidental más "estándar", o quiciabes ye'l mio parecer . Cuandu dicis fala, ¿ye la variedá eonaviega que tantes bregues causa ente les academies gallega y asturiana?.
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Trans. Is
Is: Your Asturian, I think, strays significantly from Central Asturian than the more "standardized" West Asturian, at least as far as I can tell. When you mention the word 'fala', is it the eonaviego [Galician-Asturian spoken roughly from the River Navia to the River Eo] that has caused so many conflicts between the Asturian and the Galician language academies? |
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cmtorres
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Asunción
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Villamil wrote: | | Is: El to asturianu peimeque ye munchu más dixebrau al central que'l occidental más "estándar", o quiciabes ye'l mio parecer . Cuandu dicis fala, ¿ye la variedá eonaviega que tantes bregues causa ente les academies gallega y asturiana?. |
¡Hola, Villamil! ¿Cómo tas?
Teo entendío que l'Academia de la nuesa llingua almite tolos dialeutos, siempre qu'estén escritos acordies coles regles d'ortografía. Por dicir un exemplu, nel asturianu estándar casi nun s'utiliza la ch vaqueira (l.l)
Me presta muncho falar con vós. Asina deprendo muncho tamién.
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Trans. Is
hi, Villamil! How are you? As far as I know, the Asturian Language Academy admits all the dialects as long as they respect certain orthographic rules. To give you an example, the 'l.l' or 'che vaqueira' is rarely used in the Asturian standard. I really enjoy speaking with you because it's a good way to practice.
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El hombre es enemigo de lo que ignora: Enseña una lengua y evitarás una guerra. Expande una cultura y acercarás un pueblo a otro. |
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Bob
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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My grandparents, from central Asturias, used "falar" rather than "hablar" for the English "talk" or "speak." "Fala" (as "way of speaking") seems totally appropriate for a language or dialect. From what my father told me, when my grandfather snored my grandmother would nudge him and say "falar, falar" in an effort to stop the snoring.
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Trans. Is
Los mios guelos, que yeren del centru d'Asturies, decien 'falar' en cuenta de 'hablar' pal equivalente del ingles 'talk' o 'speak'. La palabra 'fala', pa una forma de falar, paezme afayaiza pa una llingua o dialecto. Segun lo que me cuntara el mio pa, de la que roncaba el mio guelu la so muyer tocaba-y un poquinin y decia-y 'fala! fala!' pa que dexara de roncar. |
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cmtorres
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Asunción
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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¡Hi, Bob!
Yes, because in Asturian we conserve the initial F of latin words. The dialects transform that F in H. (aspirated). Then we have, for example:
- Falar = H.ablar -- Hablar, in Castilian) (to talk)
- Fueya = h.ueya (lift) -- hoja, Castilian
- Fabes = h.abes (beans) -- habas, Cast.
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El hombre es enemigo de lo que ignora: Enseña una lengua y evitarás una guerra. Expande una cultura y acercarás un pueblo a otro. |
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Bob
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't the initial "f"supposedly lost en castellano because of the Basque language influence? I don't think Basque has the "f" sound?
The aspiration has also largely been lost, no?. Nevertheless, tomorow I fully in tend to make fabada, not (h)abada. I have the chorizos (chorizos caseros asturianos - our very own home made), morcilla, fabes, tocino, azafran, etc. Whether I pronounce it with the initial "f'," an aspirated "h," or a silent "h" it will still be very good.
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Trans. Is
La 'f' inicial nun se perdeu por mor de la influencia del euskera? Cuido que l'euskera nun tien el soniu 'f', non ye verda?
L'aspiracion tamien me paez que se perdiera, verda? El casu ye que manana tengo planes pa una fabada (y non una 'h'abada. Tengo chorizos caseros asturianos, fechos equi en casa), morciella, fabes, tocin, azafran, etc. Que se pronuncie cola 'f' inicial, la 'h' aspirao o la 'h' ensin aspirar, va tar pa llambese los deos. |
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cmtorres
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Asunción
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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¡Yeah! In Castilian we lost the initial F by Basque influence. In Basque they don't have F sound, you have the reason.
Other Basque influences are words that have RR in the middle, like "pizarra", esbirro, and I heard "perro" too cames from Basque, because in the other Romanic languages they conserve the Latin root of this word: "CANUS". Then we have in Portuguese "cão", in French "chien" and in Italian "cano".
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Bob
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Lots of other examples like that. Classic Latin has "equus" while Spanish has "caballo," Latin "canum" versus' "perro," etc.
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Trans. Is
Hai munchos exemplos como esi. En Latin dizse 'equus', pero en castellan ye 'caballo', en Latin dizse 'canum' pero en castellan ye 'perro', etc. |
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Villamil
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Uviéu
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's true that fala can be applied to a language. Nonetheless the galician-asturian is called fala by their speakers, and given the resemblance (that I perceived) of Is' asturian and galician-asturian I though he was refering to it.
Anyhow, I was wrong. Despite of the similirity, the galician-asturian is somehow different. A mistake.  |
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