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tierradenadie
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 253
Location: nyc
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 Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: palabreja |
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bon día, ¿hay un equivalente en babel por la palabra española palabreja ? munches gracies, Добрый день, Ничија земља
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Trans. Is
Hello. Is there an Asturian equivalent to the Castilian Spanish word palabreja? Thanks much, Добрый день, Ничија земља |
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Is
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: Re: palabreja |
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| tierradenadie wrote: | | bon día, ¿hay un equivalente en babel por la palabra española palabreja ? munches gracies, Добрый день, Ничија земља |
Niemandsland--I keep editing your mails to switch babel to bable. Most people in Asturias refer to their language simply as 'asturianu' or 'asturiano'. Only in the far western counties do they refer to their language as 'fala' or 'galego', although it is known academically as 'gallego-asturiano', or Galician-Asturian.
Anyway, bable was coined much later by Spanish philologists and has a slightly pejorative ring, at least to my ear, for the its associations with the Tower of Babel and also for the word 'babble' in English, similar to the French labeling of the Breton language as a 'baraguoin'.
As for 'palabreja', that definitely has a Madrid ring to it, again from the same jargon where words like 'gayola', in its Castilian Spanish definition, come from.
How to translate the word 'palabreja' into Asturian? The first thing to do is to drop the '-eja' ending of the word, which doesn't exist in Asturian. Maybe 'palabrina', which is the Asturian diminutive ending for feminine words? Give me a contextual phrase in Spanish and I'll try to come up with an Asturian equivalent.
Ahlan
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Tierradenaide--Tou iguando los tous posts porque tas escribiendo 'babel' en cuenta de 'bable'. La xente asturiano nun diz que lo fala ia bable, senon asturianu ou asturiano. Nos conceyos d'oucidente, del Navia mas o menos p'al.lo, refierense a sua fala cumo 'fala' ou 'galego', magar qu'academicamente se conoz cumo 'gallego-asturiano'.
Peimeque el nomatu de 'bable' acunouse muitu mas tarde polos filologos ya pa min tien daque de peyorativu pula asociacion cona Torre de Babel ya tamen pa cona palabra 'babble' n'ingles, que me fai remembrar la palabra 'baragouin' qu'utilizaban los franceses pa describir la fala de los bretones ['bara' en breton=pan; gouin=vino].
No que cinca 'palabreja', a min suename que vien de Madrid, outra vez del mesmu tipu d'argot au touparas la palabra 'gayola' no sou usu castel.lan, que nun tien que ver col sentiu asturianu de folixa-lite.
Cumo tornar 'palabreja' al asturianu? Seique lo primeiro que hai que fader ia deixar la terminacion '-eja' que nun esiste na l.lingua. Igual 'palabrina', que tien la terminacion en femenin?
Last edited by Is on Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:10 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Bob
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Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't it Asturian scholar Gaspar de Jovellanos who used "bable" as the name for the language?
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Nun foi l'academicu Gaspar de Jovellanos el que-y diera el nomatu de 'bable' a la llingua asturiana? |
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tierradenadie
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 253
Location: nyc
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Re: palabreja |
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| Is wrote: |
Niemandsland--I keep editing your mails to switch babel to bable. |
mr iS, man dankt {jegliche verbesserung buchstäblich willkommen. ich hab nötig, so gschauts aus}, ß
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Trans. Is
mr IS, munches gracies. agradezse cualisquiera ayuda. faime falta, peimeque, ß |
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Terechu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1524
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I believe "bable" is a legitimate Asturian word for "habla".
There are many phonetic and spelling variations: i.e. in Llanes it's called "jabla" and in the western part "fala".
There are many examples where the same word can begin with either an "h", a "g" or a "b" (i.e. La Huelga, La Buelga, La Güelga).
In some central counties (i.e. Piloña, Nava, Laviana) it was common to end words with an "e" (Sidre, Puerte, etc.)
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Creo que bable es una palabra legítima asturiana por la castellana "habla". Hay muchas variantes fonéticas y ortográficas, en Llanes por ejemplo se llama "jabla" y en la zona occidental "fala".
Hay muchos ejemplos de una misma palabra que puede empezar por "h", "g" o "b" (La Huelga, La Güelga, La Buelga).
En algunos concejos del centro sur-oriente (Piloña, Nava, Laviana) se solían acabar muchas palabras en "e" (la sidre, la puerte) |
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mofusu
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Bob wrote: | Wasn't it Asturian scholar Gaspar de Jovellanos who used "bable" as the name for the language?
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Trans. Is
Nun foi l'academicu Gaspar de Jovellanos el que-y diera el nomatu de 'bable' a la llingua asturiana? |
Buenes Bob!
Según los datos caberos que conozo, el primeru n'usar la palabruca/ el palabraxu bable foi Carlos González Posada, contemporáneu y collaciu de Xovellanos. Fízolo nun llibru tituláu "Memorias históricas del principado de Asturias y obispado de Oviedo". Esti llibru asoleyose en Tarragona nel añu 1794, y esiste la teoría de qu'el términu bable nun fue otro que una confusión del editor catalán al facer la trescripción (dende un orixinal manuscritu) del términu fala o fabla (la pronunciación catalana de fabla parezse abondo a bable).
Polo demás, constatar que bable nunca foi un términu del pueblu pa referise al so idioma. Esto demuestrase a les clares consultando les encuestes del Atles Llingüísticu de la Península Ibérica (ALPI) fechu nos años 30 del sieglu XX. La xente siempre respuende que lo que fala ye asturianu, asturiano o como muncho fai referencia al so conceyu (por exemplu, quirosanu).
Los datos del ALPI puen consultase na rede gracies al llabor de David Heap de la Universidá d'Ontariu Occidental (www.alpi.ca).
Saludinos.
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Trans. Is
hi Bob!
According to my latest research, the first person to use the word 'bable' was Carlos Gonzalez Posada, a contemporary and friend of Xovellanos [Jovellanos]. The first mention of the word appeared in a book titled 'History of the Principality of Asturias and the Bishopric of Oviedo', published in Tarragona [Catalonia] in 1794.
There is a theory according to which the word 'bable' is due to a mistake by the Catalan editor about the way to transcribe the word from the original handwritten manuscript. The term 'fala' or 'fabla' has a pronunciation equivalent in Catalan that is very close to 'bable'.
That aside, it should be noted that the word 'bable' has never been used by people to refer to the language they speak. That can be gleaned from polls carried out by the Language Atlas of the Iberian Peninsula (ALPI) done in the 1930s.
People have routinely described what they speak as 'asturianu', 'asturiano' or by specifying the language of their county, for example 'quirosanu' [from County Quiros]. The results of the ALPI polls are posted online thanks to the work of David Heap from the University of Western Ontario at www.alpi.ca.
Regards, |
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