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Translation of proper names / traducción de nombres propios

 
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Terechu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:47 pm    Post subject: Translation of proper names / traducción de nombres propios Reply with quote

I really don't mean to sound pendantic, but we should be very careful when translating proper names.
I noticed that on the welcome page you mention the "Cantabrian Sea", which in English simply does not exist. The correct name in English is "Bay of Biscay" (like it or not). Just as you can't translate "The English Channel" into Spanish as "El Canal Inglés", and have to use the proper name "El Canal de la Mancha", because otherwise nobody would know what you are talking about, it is also important to use the correct name in this instance so that people can find us!

No quisiera parecer pedante, pero tenemos que tener cuidado al traducir nombres propios.
Me he dado cuenta que en la página de bienvenida se menciona "Cantabrian Sea", lo cual simplemente no existe en inglés. El nombre correcto en inglés es "Bay of Biscay" - Golfo de Vizcaya (tanto si nos gusta como si no). Al igual que no se puede traducir "The English Channel" al español como "El Canal Inglés" y se tiene que utilizar el nombre propio de "Canal de la Mancha", ya que si no nadie sabría de qué estamos hablando, también es importante usar el nombre correcto en este caso para que la gente nos pueda localizar!

Hugs / abrazos
Teresa
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Art
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4477
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My father is a geography whiz (but he isn't Asturian). This fall when we were in Asturias he asked, "I thought this was called the 'Bay of Biscay'. How come it's called the 'Mar Cantabrico' on the map?"

So, Terechu, you're probably right. Good eye! I've never known it as Bay of Biscay because I learned the name first in Castellano. I suspect that Bob and Suronda had similar introduction to the bay, since--even after weeks of reading and rereading that page--they didn't catch the error either.

Hmm. Maybe it's not exactly an error. It is very possible that Asturian-Americans call it something other than Bay of Biscay.

We should take a poll of the Asturian-American members to see what they call this body of water in English. I've posted a poll here: http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1004#1004
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Art
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Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Suronda and I were thinking about this, I remembered a more involved history of my adoption of the term "Cantabrian Sea".

I did know about Bay of Biscay first, because I can now remember some confusion about when I saw "Mar Cantábrico" on maps. Most of the maps I looked at were Spanish, so I saw "Mar Cantábrico" more than "Bay of Biscay".

I figured at the time that Biscay sounded more like a French-originated name (that was probably wrong). More importantly, since the Mar Cantábrico recognized that it is off the coast of the Cordillera Cantabrica (and the province of Cantábria, of course), I chose to call it "Cantrabrian Sea" in English. All this is evidence of a little of "norteño pride" on my part, isn't it?!

Wikipedia says the French call it the Golfe de Gascogne: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Biscay

Does anyone know the origins of the name "Bay of Biscay"? One source I read stated the obvious: the name is related to what is now the Basque province of Biscay. That is certainly incomplete.


If you're an American of Asturian parents or grandparents, please tell us what you call the Mar Cantábrico by voting in the poll at:
http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332
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Terechu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my theory: in the late middle ages, when international sea trade started to pick up, nautical charts were needed and, in turn, those charts had to reflect the names of all the bays, capes, ports and gulfs. Since the ports of the province of Biscay (always part of the Kingdom of Castille, now Basque Region) were those of easiest access from the plains of Castille (no mountain passes to cross, as was the case with Asturias) those were naturally the main export/import harbours. Trade with England, in fact, was so busy that when Catherine of Aragon arrived in London in 1510 to marry the Prince of Wales (later Henry VIII), there were over 60 Spanish vessels in the port of London. Thus, I believe that English cartographers just didn't know any better than to call if Bay of Biscay.

*************************************************************

Esta es mi teoría: en la baja edad media, cuando el comercio marítimo empezó a aumentar, se necesitaban cartas náuticas, que a su vez debían reflejar los nombres de todas las bahías, cabos, puertos y golfos. Dado que los puertos de la provincia de Vizcaya (siempre parte del Reino de Castilla, y actualmente del País Vasco) eran los de más fácil acceso desde la meseta castellana (no había que cruzar puertos de montaña, como en el caso de Asturias) fueron los que naturalmente se convirtieron en los principales puertos de importación/exportación. El comercio con Inglaterra era tan activo que cuando 1n 1501 Catalina de Aragón llegó a Londres para casarse con el Príncipe de Gales (más tarde con Enrique VIII), había 60 navíos españoles en el puerto de Londres. Por tanto, creo que los cartógrafos ingleses no sabían que otra cosa llamarle más que Bahía de Vizcaya.

Cheers/Saludos
Terechu
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Art
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4477
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is odd. In most places in the Harper Collins Spanish Unabridged Dictionary, "Mar Cantábrico" is associated with "Bay of Biscay." Nonetheless, under "Mar" it is translated "Cantabrian Sea (Bay of Biscay)". So there may be a larger number of people using this phrase than the Americans in this forum!

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translated by Art & Reverso

Que raro. En la mayor parte, en el Harper Collins Diccionario inglésl Íntegro, "el mar Cantábrico" es asociado con Bay of Biscay." Sin embargo, bajo "mar" es traducido "Cantabrian Sea (Bay of Biscay)". ¡Así puede ser más gente que los Americanos en este foro usando esta frase!
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