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Asociación de descencientes del exilio español
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lulycelsa



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: What do you think? Reply with quote

The opportunity to become a Spanish Citizen via la Ley de Memoria Historica means the world to me Smile My grandfather was from Luarca in Asturias and my grandmother was from Lugo, Galicia. They both emigrated to Cuba sometime in the 1930's I think and met in Cuba.
I have always loved Spain - when Castro came to power my Grandfather sent my mother and aunt out of Cuba to Spain and my grandmother followed a few months later then my grandfather. My mother reunited with her sweetheart from Cuba (my father) in Spain and got married in Madrid in 1963. I was almost born in Madrid but she came to the United States about 1 month before I was born in 1966. I grew up going to Spain and spending my summers there during my teenage years - what a wonderful experience.

Anyways, I need your opinion.

I have the following documentation and I have an appt with the Consulate of Spain in Washington this coming month:

1. Both of my grandparents birth certificates received this summer from Ministerio de Justicia

2. My mothers original birth certificate from Habana, Cuba it reads the following:

"se procede a inscribir el nacimiento de una hembra ocurrido a las ocho de la mañana del dia siete de Noviembre del pasado año (1941) -- es hija de (my grandfather's name) del comercio y de (my grandmother's name) de su casa, naturales de España, mayores de edad y vecinos del lugar del nacimiento, es nieta por linea paterna de (my great grandparents' names) y por la materna de (my great grandparents' names), todos naturales de España...."

It does not say "ciudadanos españoles but naturales de España"

3. I also found my grandmother's CARTA DE CIUDADANIA from Cuba (when she was granted Cuban citizenship) dated 12 March 1942 (4 months AFTER my mother was born).

4. I have both my grandmother and grandfather's Cuban passports issued in early 1960s

I do not have my grandfather's Carta de Ciudadania, HOWEVER my Mom says they both became Cuban citizens after she was born so in 1942.

I am just very nervous that from what I have read here they go by the grandfather only - so I would like to know if my mother's cuban birth certificate only calls BOTH of my grandparents (naturales de España) and I have my grandmother's Carta de Ciudadania which ocurred months AFTER the birth of my mother, would you think the Consulate would consider this proof that my grandparents were both still Spanish Citizens at the time my mother was born?

I would imagine I go with Anexo I - correct?

Any feedback would be very appreciated.

Best regard,

Lourdes
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MariaA



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hola Lourdes,

How lucky you were to grow up visiting Spain. I didn't really "discover" Spain until I was an adult, never had an interest in it when I was young.

From what you list I can tell you that you need a new birth certificate for your mom, legalized by the Ministerio de Realaciones Exteriores in Cuba. They will not accept an old birth certificate. I have read that Cuba is not issuing anymore the literal birth certificates but just an extract (summarized version). Supposedly the Spanish consulates will accept that now, but you should check with the Spanish Consulate in Washington to make sure this is fine with them .

Unfortunately, to opt for citizenship under Anexo I you have to do it via your grandfather. It is unfair , but that's the way it is. You need documentation that proves that HE was still a Spanish citizen at the time your mom was born, it doesn't matter what it says in your mom's birth certificate, that is not enough proof. I have read in the HYNE website that Cuba is now issuing some sort of document at the Registro Civil to which your grandparents belonged in Cuba that would state when they became Cuban citizen. I will try to find this information and post it here.

If one (or both) of your grandparents emigrated to Cuba after July 18, 1936 and you can prove it, you could apply under Anexo 2. I am not well versed as to what documentation this Anexo requires. You could google Ley de Memoria Historica and I am sure you could get this info.

You also need your birth certificate, which of course you can get here in the US.

Sorry not to give you better news. Do you have anybody in Cuba that might help you get your mom's birth certificate and documentation attesting to when your grandfather became a Cuban citizen?

Editing to add: I just went back to the HYNE website and found the following comment dealing with the document that can at this time be obtained in Cuba attesting to your grandfather's Cuban citizenship:

"El documento que se pide en el registro civil del municipio donde viviò o vive tù abuelo y se llama "Acta de ciudadania" si tù abuelo se nacionalizò cubano tuvo que hacer este documento porque era necesario para darte la ciudadanìa cubana. Este documento puede sostituir el DIE y se necesita menos tiempo para obtenerlo." (translation: The document is requested at the Civil Registry of the Municipality where your grandfather lived or lives and it's called "Acta de Ciudadanía". If your grandfather became a Cuban citizen he had to submit this document since it was necessary to grant him the Cuban citizenship. This document can take the place of the document issued by the DIE and it takes less time to obtain)


Last edited by MariaA on Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lulycelsa



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hola Maria y muchas gracias por la respuesta Smile

Anyways, I think I will show them what I have and see what happens because there is absolutely no family left in Cuba at all - since my grandparents left in the early 1960s.

Regarding Anexo II - if my mother was born in 1941 in Cuba that would show them they were no longer in Spain either so I will have to ask the Consulate to advise me based on what I have which Anexo 1 or Anexo 2.

Anyone else please feel free to share anything else you may know - so much appreciated.

Gracias de antemano.

Lourdes
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MariaA



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lourdes,


The birth certificates/ "Acta de Ciudadania" don't have to be requested by a family member. Anybody can do it. Your parents/ grandparents don't have any friends/ acquaintances in Cuba that could do it ( probably for money)?

Good luck with your appt. but if you don't have this documentation you will not get very far.
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lulycelsa



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Gracias Maria Reply with quote

No Maria - we know of no one in Cuba whatsoever.

Lamentablemente no conocemos a nadie en Cuba.
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MariaA



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lourdes,

In case you haven't seen this website, it has tons of information on the requirements for Anexo 1, Anexo 2, etc. People are very helpful.

http://www.hyne.com.ar/foro/index.php

Good luck!
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4476
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Art: I received this message via email from Sal.]

Salvador García wrote:
The first link I'm sending explains who can opt for Spanish citizenship:
http://www2.mjusticia.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tramite_C/1215326474172/Detalle.html

On the right side of the screen under Informacion relacionada you will find the Certificado Nacimiento para efectos de la Ley de Memoria Histórica option (2nd link I'm sending) which will enable potential applicants to order their grandparents or parents Spanish birth certificates.
https://ecertificados.mjusticia.es/eCertificados/CertificadoNacimientoLMH.do
I have family members who have used this link, and have recieved the birth certificates that they requested in approximatley 4 months time.

There are only 19 months (as of May 2010) left for grandchildren to aquire citizenship through the LMH, so you have to let the people on the forum know that if they really want this, they need to get on the ball now.

Some consulates require an appointment. If you don't have an appointment, they won't see you. This depends on the consulate, so advise all those interested to call the consulate in which they plan to apply so as to confirm whether they need to make an appoitment. The appointment can be made online(3rd link included), and the confirmation must be printed and taken to the appointment.
http://citapreviaconsular.maec.es/Extranet/SuCITA/HomeSolicitanteCon.aspx?Oficina=0&Servicio=NACIONALIDAD

Also, if for any reason an applicant is rejected, the rejection MUST be in WRITING. Applicants must be firm about this, you must not be turned away without a rejection in writing. The reason being that all denials or rejections can be appealed within 30 days of denial, but in order to be able to appeal one must have proof of the denial.

If I could give you one piece of advice regarding your citizenship application it is the following: be vigilant and proactive regarding it. What I mean by this is that if you haven't heard back from the consulate after submitting your application in a reasonable amount of time, by all means contact them.

Here are the 3 links I mention in this e-mail:
http://www2.mjusticia.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tramite_C/1215326474172/Detalle.html
https://ecertificados.mjusticia.es/eCertificados/CertificadoNacimientoLMH.do
http://citapreviaconsular.maec.es/Extranet/SuCITA


Here's more from Salvador on appealing a rejection (look under "Recursos"):
http://leymemoria.mjusticia.es/paginas/es/descendientes.html

Ministerio de Justicia wrote:
Si el Encargado del Registro Civil denegara la opción a la nacionalidad española de origen por no cumplir los requisitos previstos en la ley, se le notificará formalmente al interesado a efectos de que pueda interponer el correspondiente recurso ante la Dirección General de los Registros y del Notariado del Ministerio de Justicia: Plaza Jacinto Benavente, nº 3 – 28.071 Madrid.
El recurso también podrá presentarse en las representaciones diplomáticas u oficinas consulares de España en el extranjero.


Last edited by Art on Tue May 18, 2010 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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MariaA



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Salvador is mistaken when he says that "There are only 19 months (as of May 2010) left for grandchildren to aquire citizenship through the LMH..." According to the law, the request has to be made by December 27, 2010, so , unless they extend the law by one year (which is a possibility but has not been anounced), there are only 7 months left to apply.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4476
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, he's correct. It is hard to find this information, in part because the government tends to not list the final date.

Salvador has sent me several links that describe the new deadline. It has been extended for 1 year until December 27, 2011. (Note that it's the 27th. I've corrected Maria's message which said "29".)

The official government bulletin:
http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2010/03/24/pdfs/BOE-A-2010-4853.pdf

Boletín Oficial del Estato wrote:
Prorrogar en un año el plazo para optar a la nacionalidad española por opción previsto en la Disposición Adicional Séptima de la Ley 52/2007, de 26 de diciembre, por la que se reconocen y amplían derechos y se establecen medidas a favor de quienes padecieron persecución o violencia durante la guerra civil y la dictadura.


http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/ano/volver/ser/espanol/elpepuesp/20100402elpepunac_4/Tes

http://www.diariocritico.com/2010/Enero/inmigracion/191348/prorroga-ano-plazo-inmigrantes-ley-memoria-historica.html

http://www.parainmigrantes.info/la-ley-de-nietos-se-prorroga-un-ano-mas/

But don't let that extension delay getting started. The process is much more detailed and time-consuming that you might imagine.
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MariaA



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad I was wrong about this. But as you say, people should not delay as getting the necessary documents is time consuming and can be frustrating.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4476
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't find that change of ending date, either. It's odd that the official website hasn't been updated.
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