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Relationship between pan dulce (sweet bread) and challah

 
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Maestro Tomberi



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 170
Location: Gijón, Asturias

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Relationship between pan dulce (sweet bread) and challah Reply with quote

My following question is formulated mainly towards either Art or Bob, whom most likely could give me a well documented and positive answer.

I have been making a research several days ago about Jewish food and I just found out both challah and our pan dulce are simply identical: size, shape and ingredients.

This discovery makes me think Jews would have had a significant role in Asturian culinary as well as it might have been in more other features throughout History.


What do you think?
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Maestro Tomberi, creador de fantasía y surrealismo
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is
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Yaoundé

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very funny, never thought of that. Where is pan dulce typically made in Asturias? Is it laced like the challah bread? Challah is mostly made by men or women right before Sabbath on Friday evenings so it lasts until the end of Sabbath on Saturday evening. I've never tasted the Whole Foods version here in Washington, but it's likely not very excellent. Brooklyn is the best place to go for challah...
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Art
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
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Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't noticed that parallel either. In fact, I don't think I've eaten either kind. (Paul is much more worldly than I am!)

I do think there is a strong possibility that Jews have had a big role in Asturian genetics, culture, and history. Of course, Jews would have contributed quietly due to institutional and cultural injustices, demonstrated especially by the expulsion of Jews and Moslems and the inquisition.

Some of my family have a strong Middle Eastern semblance. I have often been asked by American Jews if I, too, am Jewish. In terms of genealogy, I'd give it a very high probability.

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No me había dado cuenta de este paralelismo tampoco. De hecho, no creo que he comido ninguno de los dos. (¡Paul está mucho más mundano que yo!)

Creo que hay una gran posibilidad de que los judíos han tenido un papel importante en la genética, la cultura y la historia de Asturias. Por supuesto, los judíos hubieran contribuido en silencio debido a las injusticias institucionales y culturales, las que se manifestaron sobre todo por la expulsión de los judíos y musulmanes y por la inquisición.

Algunos de mi familia tienen una fuerte semejanza del oriente medio. Muchas veces judíos americanos me han preguntado si también soy judío. Respecto a la genealogía mía, pondría una probabilidad muy alta.
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Maestro Tomberi



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 170
Location: Gijón, Asturias

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my first supposition, Art, and your answers lead me into the right track. It's not just chance. Thank you very much.

In answer to Is inquiries: Yes, It's braid shape laced. In further addition, despite it's traditional to make it in the whole Asturian territory, and most specially during Easter, it's mostly typical of Valdés.

I always remember when I was a child when my mother or my grandmother made the dough and I always used to pinch a bit of it. (Mmmm) At the risk of having my ears pulled ¡Jajajajajajajaja!
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Art
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This website, http://www.sefarad-asturias.org/eng_thejewry.html, states that Jews lived in Oviedo long before the expulsion and suggests that they had to leave when the expulsion occurred. Some also converted to Christianity (conversos) or converted but continued to practice their Jewish faith (crypto-Jews).

There's a longer paper in Castilian here: http://www.sefarad-asturias.org/PDF/Historia.Juderia.Asturias.pdf

What I have heard (without any substantiation) is that, after the expulsion, Jews came to Asturias from more southern areas of the peninsula because no one knew them here and therefore they could blend in as if they were Christian. These immigrants probably acted as though they were Christian in order to integrate. By the time these Jewish immigrants grandchildren were born, these Asturians may not have known about their family's secret story. If this myth is accurate (and I dont know!), it is very likely that the trajectory of the conversos and crypto-Jews would have been similar.

I have heard other stories like this in Portugal (in a National Geographic article decades ago) and even in the American Southwest. Some of these families had maintained traditions like lighting a menorah (a traditional Jewish candelabra) but the families didn't know why.

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Este página, http://www.sefarad-asturias.org/lajuderia.html (la página en inglés tiene más texto: http://www.sefarad-asturias.org/eng_thejewry.html), afirma que algunos judíos vivían en Oviedo mucho antes de la expulsión y sugiere que tenían que salir cuando ocurrió la expulsión. Algunos también se convirtieron al cristianismo (los conversos), y otros se convirtieron pero continuaron practicar la fe judía (judíos criptos).

Hay un papel más largo en castellano aquí: http://www.sefarad-asturias.org/PDF/Historia.Juderia.Asturias.pdf

Lo que he oído (sin cualquier justificación) es que, después de la expulsión, otros (supongo no los mismos) judíos llegaron a Asturias de las zonas más meridionales de la península porque nadie les conocía en Asturias y por lo tanto podrían mezclarse como si fueran cristianos. Estos inmigrantes probablemente actuaron como si fueran cristianos con el fin de integrar. Por el momento en que nacieron los nietos de estos inmigrantes judíos, estos asturianos no habrían sabido acerca de la historia secreta de su familia. Si tiene razón este mito (y no lo sé), es muy probable que la trayectoria de los conversos y los judíos criptos habría sido similar.

He oído otras historias como ésta de Portugal (en un artículo de National Geographic hace décadas) e incluso en el suroeste de Estados Unidos. Algunas de estas familias habían mantenido las tradiciones, como la iluminación de un menorah (candelabro judío tradicional), pero las familias dijeran que no sabían por qué.
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