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Rudeness in discussions / Mala educación en discusiones

 
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bepi



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 2
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:13 am    Post subject: Rudeness in discussions / Mala educación en discusiones Reply with quote

Art: no discutiré tus reglas de juego, ya que ésto es simple: se toma o se deja. Sin embargo no veo que se use la misma vara para calificar de ofensivo a un mensaje y no al que le dio origen.
No fue mi intención ofender ni hacer juegos de palabras para anotarme tantos. En mi primera intervención en el foro quise dejar constancia de mi rechazo a la intolerancia y a la grosería minúscula por parte de alguien que trabaja mucho pero no respeta tanto. Ni por un momento pensé en ofensas personales.
No supuse que a esos rechazos debería agregar ahora mi rechazo a la censura. Pero, como te dije, cuestiono tu actitud y no tu derecho.
Ya que se trata de un foro, con lo dicho no me queda otra opción que pedirte me borres de la lista.

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translated by Art

Art: I will not discuss your rules of the game, since this is simple: you take it or you leave it. Nevertheless I do not see that the guideline used to determine the offensiveness of one message is not applied to the one that gave to rise to the one that second message.

It was my intention neither to offend nor to play word games to score points. In my first intervention in the forum I wanted to leave witness to my rejection of the intolerance and to the minuscule rudeness on the part of someone who works very much but does not respect so much. Not for a moment I thought about personal offenses.

I did not suppose that to these (my) rejections would be added now my rejection of censorship. But, as I said to you, I question your attitude and not your right.

Since it is a question of a forum, with the above mentioned thing I do not still have another option that to ask you to remove me from the list.
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Barbara Alonso Novellino



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 324
Location: Long Island, New York

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject: Bowling for Columbine Reply with quote

Could someone please translate Bepi's comments from 6/26...Thank you...Barbara Alonso Novellino

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translated by Art

Por favor, podía alguien traducir los comentarios de Bepi de 6/26... Gracias... Barbara Alonso Novellino
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4508
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have translated Bepi's second post above. The first message I removed because it--in my estimation--stepped over fine line into an attack on another member. I accept that Bepi did not intend it as an attack. Appearances are often different from intentions.

Writing on a forum is a delicate thing. Moderating a forum is even more fraught with difficulties. Like you, we are all volunteers here and doing our best to build a community.

While it is true that we value community more highly than freedom of speech, in reality, almost anything can be said if one thinks for a moment about how to say it in a non-offensive, non-aggressive manner.

After removing Bepi's original message, I wrote a thorough, sympathetic message to Bepi explaining my action and agreeing with his or her basic message to us. Bepi has raised important points, points that we would do well to discuss. So I encourage Bepi to rephrase her or his original message in a manner that is not personal.

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He traducido el segundo mensaje de Bepi arriba. El primer mensaje quitó porque - a mi juicio - atravesada la línea fina hasta ser un ataque contra otro miembro. Acepto que Bepi no se lo propuso como un ataque. Las apariciones son a menudo diferentes de intenciones.

Escribir en un foro es una cosa delicada. La moderación de un foro es aún más cargada por dificultades. Como usted, estamos todos sólomente voluntarios y hacemos todo lo posible para construir una comunidad.

Mientras es verdadero que valoramos la comunidad más sumamente que la libertad de palabra, en realidad, casi todo que se quere decir puede escribir - si se piensa durante un momento sobre como decirlo en una manera no ofensiva, sin agresión.

Después del quitar el mensaje original de Bepi, le escribí a Bepi un mensaje cuidadoso y comprensivo para explicar mi acción y el hecho de estar de acuerdo con su mensaje básico. Bepi ha levantado puntos importantes, puntos que vale la peña discutir. Por eso, animo a Bepi que diga de otra manera su mensaje original en una manera que no sea personal.


Last edited by Art on Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4508
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject: On "Moderation" / Sobre "Moderación" Reply with quote

One word Bepi used in the first message (now removed), struck me as a clever and yet useful pun. He or she titled the post "Moderación?" which could be translated "Moderation?" I was surprised by the double meaning:
  • "to be a facilitator of a discussion," and
  • "to act with restraint."
Our software creates confusion over who is really an official moderator. At this point the only real "moderators" are Bob, Suronda, and Art. The other moderators are really "translators," but the program we use can't distinquish between these categories.

But in the grand scheme, we are all responsible for the discussion. We are all moderators. And if we do not "moderate" ourselves, the discussion will fall apart.

And sometimes, we'll have to remind each other to "be nice!" (But it's usually best to talk about those things in private.) We're all capable of stepping over the line. It's part of being human, isn't it?

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Una palabra usado por Bepi en su primer mensaje (ahora quitado), me admiré como un juego de palabras inteligente y aún útil. Él o ella titularon el poste "¿Moderación?" Estuve sorprendido por la ambigüedad:
  • "para ser un facilitador de una discusión,"
  • "para actuar con circunspección."
Nuestro software crea una confusión sobre quien es realmente un "moderador" oficial. En este punto los únicos verdaderos "moderadors" son Bob, Suronda, y Art. Los otros moderadors son realmente "traductores", pero el programa que usamos no puede distinquish entre estas categorías.

Pero en el magnífico esquema, somos todo responsables de la discusión. Somos todos los moderadors. Y si no "nos moderamos", la discusión se deshará.

Y a veces, tendremos que recordar el uno al otro "¡Ser agradables!" (Pero, me parece mejor decir esos cosas in privado.) Somos todo capaces de atravesar la línea. ¿Esto es la parte de ser humano, verdad?


Last edited by Art on Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Barbara Alonso Novellino



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 324
Location: Long Island, New York

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:21 pm    Post subject: Rudeness in Discussions Reply with quote

I have been following all the messages in Bowling for Columbine. This is a very HEATED area. Although we don't want to restrict certain subjects, this is a very contraversial one with a lot of passion. Therefore, we have to be very careful when we insert out thoughts. We have to be mindful of different opinions and certain things will really light a fire under someone and things will be said.

I personally have never seen or read Bowling in Columbine, Fehrehent 9/11 or anything that Michael Moore has up his sleeve. I personally feel he has an agenda...and at this time when we are at War I think the less said the better. There is a lot I can say on this subject, but choose not to.

So I say, fellow Spaniards lets keep our tempers in check and keep this a forum where we can exchange ideas, keeping in mind the people who are reading our thoughts.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4508
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Barbara, the odd thing is that the controversy in the forum is not about the theme being discussed. It's about the way people express themselves and the attitudes perceived by the audience. It's hard because we often don't (and maybe can't) realize the effect our writing will have on others.

Good things come of these discussions, though. I know I'm learning about the kinds of things that irritate other people, and I'm learning how to be more effective in expressing myself without irritating people. (Of course, I'm not a finished work of art. Wink )

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Hola, Barbara, lo raro es que la controversia en el foro no es del tema que tratamos. Es de la manera en que nos expresamos y las actitudes que el "público" perciben. Es difícil por que a menudo no comprendemos (o no podemos comprender) el efecto que nuestra escritura tendrá en otros.

Pero nos sirve bien esos discusiones. Sé que estoy aprendiendo de los cosas que molestan a otros, y estoy aprendiendo como expresarme sin darles una rabia a otros. (Pues, por supuesto, no estoy una obra del arte completo! Wink )
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