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Xixon- Ancient Seaport of Atlantis?
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject: Xixon- Ancient Seaport of Atlantis? Reply with quote

According to the historians, there was human presence there at Gijon around 5000BC. They cite the Tumulus burials and stone Dolmens as evidence of their findings.

This dating would be approximately the same time period as the City of Atlantis believed to be located under the marshes of the Donana National Park in the south. People of Atlantis were known for their round temples, buildings, and other structures.

It would be interesting to explore the ocean floors off the coast of Gijon for ancient stone anchors from ships that visited there. The Spanish Historians and National Geographical Society found such anchor evidence in the Atlantic Ocean located off of the Isote de Sancti Petri giving speculation and hope that there was a nearby city port like Atlantis.

Plato mentioned that the Atlantis Navy had 1200 ships and that figure would not account for merchant or fishing ships that plied the Atlantic Ocean. Some of those ships and sailors would have been at sea and survived the sinking of the city and they had to go somewhere. They would also have known about the port of Xixon.

Our R1b gene that many Asturians probably have may have been likely as a result of a relocation of dispossessed peoples. The distribution of that gene is also probably a clue as to its origin throughout the Celtic nations.

Once the Spanish Historians undertake to excavate under Donana, That area may become the eighth wonder of the world if it turns out to factual. Further, my historical premise will be exonerated about the port of Xixon and the origin of Celtic peoples originating in SPAIN.
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Art
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4471
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Manny,

There's lots of speculation here. We should celebrate your ability to think outside the box.

It would be interesting to see an article on the Donana National Park and Atlantis. Do you have a link to that?
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art,
I have been watching the National Geographical film on YouTube entitled:
Atlantis Rising. I had seen it first on the National Geographical Channel, NTGEO, on Dish about a week ago.

Yes, it is outside the box, and I understand that much of it is speculation; however, from the evidence presented in that film, I believe that a city lies under the marshes of Donana that may have had connections with the seaport of Gijon in Asturias. I also believe that underwater archeologists will find the same ancient stone anchors in the Sea of Biscay as they did near Donana in the Atlantic Ocean which indicates that there was a ancient port city there in southern Spain. Historians know that there was human presence in and around Gijon for some 5000 years ago well within the time frame of Atlantis.
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The YouTube sites are: Atlantis Rising-full movie English and NG El Resurgir de la Atlántida in Spanish.

The spread of the R1b gene had to be by seafaring peoples because some of the other countries in the distribution could only been reached by ship since they surrounded by water.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4471
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting, Manny. Thanks for the links.

Is what you're thinking that Atlantis was a culture and that members of that culture may have visited or even inhabited Gijón?
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that it is quite possible that survivors may have sailed there after the destruction of Atlantis for refuge. According to Plato, Atlantis had a great Navy and apparently many merchant ships as well. Gijon has had a human presence for nearly 5000 years well within the time frame of Atlantis. Certainly, a culture with 1200 Navy ships probably made contact in Asturias.

Asturias has many mineral and metal deposits which would have made it a popular destination and trading stop by seafaring peoples. There are also the Rio Tinto Mines in the south which would have also been a source of metals for trading. Atlantis reportedly had a large appetite for Gold and Copper.

I have sent an email to Georgeos Diaz-Montexano, a writer who was featured in the Atlantis Rising film explaining to him my theories about the possibility that the city of Xixon , Gijon,may have been a destination and port of call for Atlantis.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4471
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know if there are any remains of their ships? It'd be interesting to know what they looked like and whether they'd be seaworthy to travel on the Atlantic. Your iste in the Donaña National Park is on the Atlantic and many seem to believe that even in prehistory, sailors plied the ocean.

You may know this, but there are proposed sites for Atlantis all over the world, including off the coast of Asturias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not seen any information on the construction of their ships. It would be interesting to see a conception of their design to compare it with the ancient Greek and Roman vessels. I am not sure if they have found any ancient ship wrecks in the area of Donana. They have found some six stone boat anchors from ancient times and without chemical analysis one will not know from where they originated.

I knew about some of the other locations; however, I did not know that the Sea of Biscay off the coast of Asturias was even being considered.

Some interesting pieces of evidence are several pieces of ancient concrete found on the beaches does not match the Roman formula and is much superior. There are remnants of a harbor wall in the Atlantic where some of the sections are the 75 feet thick. The harbor wall at Atlantis was reported by Plato as being 75 stadia.

What I would really like to see most of all is their written language and art work.
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:53 am    Post subject: Correccion: Reply with quote

Art,

The harbor wall found near Donana in the Atlantic Ocean is 75 meters wide and not the 75 feet that I posted earlier. I believe that it makes a difference in our discussion.

I re-watched the YouTube segment entitled: New Claim: Atlantis discovered in southern Spain-ancient architects. They show the satellite photo of the sea wall found by the Merlin Burrows Company. It looks pretty convincing to me as another piece of evidence for the Donana area being the location for Atlantis.

Plato wrote that there is opinion and also knowledge; I believe that he would have told his readers if the story about Atlantis was a fable. Evidently, he spoke from knowledge about its existence. I am writing my opinion and it is probably a bias one; although. it takes courage to admit that one is wrong.

Manny
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4471
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a wide wall. There are other rock formations in other parts of the world that look human-made because of their regular, squared off forms, but some (scientists, I think) believe they are actually natural, not human-made. Interesting stuff.
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Marta Elena Díaz García
Moderator


Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 361
Location: Molleda. Corvera de Asturias

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Manuell,
Your theories are very interesting.....I also should like to see evidence of the presence of atlantis in Asturias.

There are around Asturias many evidences of the presence of dolmens, tumulus as well as prehistoric caves. Some of these evidences are near the coast as in Llanes.

https://historiadeasturias.com/tag/dolmenes/
https://historiadeasturias.com/category/cuevas-prehistoricas-en-asturias/
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Marta,

Thank you for your post and interest. I have sent an email to one of the participants in the Donana/Atlantis project, Georgeos Diaz-Montexano, presenting the evidence of stone circles and round burial mounds found in Asturias. The Atlanteans were fond of building things in circles. I especially mentioned the port of Gijon which would have been an excellent docking area for sailing ships. Further, I referred to the presence of minerals and metals found in Asturias that were reportedly prized by the peoples of Atlantis.
Lastly, I mentioned the distribution of the R1b gene that peoples in northern Spain share in their DNA with other Celtic countries and that it could have only been spread by seafaring peoples like the Atlanteans since Ireland, Wales, England, and Scotland are surrounded by water.
Hopefully, researchers like Georgeos will find the connection.

Manuell
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Bob
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 1725
Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Haplogroup R1b Reply with quote

Here's an interesting article on haplogroup R1b.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml
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Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

That is a lot information to absorb ---is there a short cut to determining which R1b group that the Asturians belong to--short of taking a DNA test?

Manny
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Bob
Moderator


Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 1725
Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Manny,

The short answer is no, but the reasons are complex.

First, there is not a single Rb1 group that is characteristic of all Asturians as a group because asturianos, like almost all human groups have multiple genetic origins and a number of phenomena affect the evolution of various human population. Both ancestral and modern Asturian populations share genes with may other groups including very early Iberians, Celts, Suevi, Vandals, Visigoths and many other lineages, and the admixtures have only increased over time. We know this from historical as well as genetic studies.

The various Y chromosome haplogroups came about by many sequential mutations, resulting in a finely branched tree-like structure. Populations as well as individuals migrate, intermingle and intermarry, and engage in military campaigns (mostly men in the majority of cultures). Along with their autosomal genes, men take their X and Y chromosomes and women their X chromosomes and mitochondrial genes. External factors such as diseases can bring effects om fertility and viability that differ by sex. Selection, mutation, migration and genetic drift affect gene frequencies of alleles, haplogroups and mitochondrial genomes.

Many Iberian Y chromosome variants may have originated in situ: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5544771/.
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