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Asturian Haven Cities?

 
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Ronzalez



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:14 am    Post subject: Asturian Haven Cities? Reply with quote

Does anyone know of any US cities which have a lot of Asturian-ancestry people living there, in the same way that Boise, Idaho, has a strong Basque population culture living there?
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4475
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure about this, but I'd guess that Tampa, FL is still strongly Asturian.

Probably any city that has a lot of Cubans would have a lot of Asturians, so I'd add Miami, FL to the list.

Cities that once had strong Asturian communities related to the zinc industry immigration of the early 1900s include places like: Clarksburg, WV (as well as Anooore and Spelter), Donora, PA, East St. Louis, IL, Fairmont City, IL, Cherryvale, MO, St. Louis, MO, New York, NY. There must be others, too.

There was also a strong Asturian component to early Spanish immigration to the American Southwest. It has been suggested that the vaquero tradition in Asturias is the basis of what we know as cowboys in the Southwest. Vaqueros were Asturians who practiced seasonally migratory herding. Some of these Asturians moved to the Southwest when it was Spanish.

There are two problems with this answer. One is that, like many Americans, Asturian-Americans have moved away from the places their grandparents first settled. The other is that contemporary Asturian-Americans, again like many Americans, have forgotten their roots, so their knowledge of their heritage is often embarrassingly minimal.

Well, that's why we're here!

----------------------------

No estoy cierto sobre esto, pero supongo que Tampa, Florida, es aún muy asturiana.

Es probable que cualquier ciudad que tiene un montón de cubanos tendrían un montón de asturianos, por lo que añadiría a la lista Miami, FL.

Las ciudades que alguna vez tuvieron fuertes comunidades asturianas en relación con la inmigración de los años 1900 que pertenecieron a la industria del zinc incluyen lugares como: Clarksburg, West Virginia (así como Anooore y Spelter), Donora, PA, East St. Louis, Illinois, Fairmont City, IL, Cherryvale , MO, St. Louis, MO, Nueva York, NY. Debe haber otros, también.

También hubo un fuerte componente asturiano en la inmigración española en la época temprano de la población del suroeste de Estados Unidos. Se ha sugerido que la tradición vaquero en Asturias es la base de lo que conocemos como vaqueros (cowboys) en el suroeste. Vaqueros eran asturianos que practicaban el pastoreo con migratorias estacionales. Algunos de estos asturianos se movió al suroeste cuando era español.

Hay dos problemas con esta respuesta. Una es que, como muchos estadounidenses, astur-americanos se han alejado de los lugares en que sus abuelos se instalaron al principio. La otra es que los contemporánea astur-americanos, una vez más como muchos estadounidenses, han olvidado sus raíces, por lo que a menudo tienen poco conocimiento de su herencia y de la cultura asturiana.

¡Pues, por eso estamos aquí!
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Ronzalez



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by Ronzalez on Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ronzalez



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by Ronzalez on Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terechu
Moderator


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe there's a town in Florida called Oviedo, obviously founded by someone from Asturias's capital.
Other than that, St. Augustine, FL, was founded by Pedro Menéndez de Avilés, who was not a settler, but a sea captain - a military man with a military mission.

There are no significant Asturian communities in the USA, because Asturians chose to emigrate largely to Cuba, Mexico and Venezuela, they were thriving Spanish-language countries, and the closest to home.
Besides, the population of Asturias at the turn of the 19th/02th Century was only about 500,000 (half a million).
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4475
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there is an "Oviedo" in FL, although it's not an Asturian enclave in any way that I know of. The locals don't pronounce the word correctly, but that doesn't prove anything because even in WV's Asturian community, "García" was often pronounced "Garsha".

I was surprised when I was in St. Augustine recently to notice that there was much more mention of Cadiz than Asturias.

When we visited Tampa a few years ago, we were told that the area around the Centro Asturiano had been very heavily Asturian and Spanish. It was a very large community because of the large scale of the cigar industry there. Rather than Tampa, it may have been Ibor City, but I'm not sure. Tony Carreño or Ronzalez would know better, but I believe that the town still has a high percentage of people with Asturian and Spanish roots. Of course, the grandchildren aren't likely to speak Spanish or Asturian, and many have moved to other places, so the current population isn't nearly as Asturian as it once was.

So, I think Tampa, or more likely several districts within Tampa, would have been among the highest densities of Asturians in the US, along with and other zinc towns like Clarksburg, WV, (although the zinc-associated communities only had sizes of 1000-5000 Asturianns, I think).

But that was in the early 20th century. Today, the numbers are diluted by movement of peoples, so maybe the Asturian concentrations are gone, as the Asturians moved into the middle American and other poor Americans replaced them.


Ronzalez is quite right that the Centro Asturiano is in serious, sad decline. In fact, when we visited, large parts of the Centro Asturiano were being rented out to other businesses and groups and there was probably more Hispanic (Latin American) presence than Asturian.


My experience is mostly with the Asturian-Americans who settled in WV and were associated with the zinc industry. My sense is that the second generation of these Asturian-Americans (the first generation born in the US in the 1910's, 20's and 30's) integrated pretty well with middle class American culture, but that they hid their Spanish ancestry to avoid the prejudice which was common then. But I've been struck by how few of the first generation (those who came over) started businesses or became professionals. Most of them worked as laborers in heavy industry.

My aunts and uncles all spoke Spanish as kids, but refused to speak it as adults. Some claimed that they couldn't, although I've seen letters in Spanish that they wrote to their parents as young adults. One uncle did not want his kids to study Spanish in school.

I'm not sure, but it appears that the children of the immigrants (in other words, the first generation born here) didn't generally find highly paid jobs, either, but a few (?) of them went to college and some became teachers, nurses, and the like. I'd bet that many of the men worked in heavy industry, like their fathers. I know that some among the third generation completed college and that some became professionals. It's also clear that most have never learned about their roots.


Ronzalez, your anger is fine. Bowen Family Systems Theory describes a phenomenon known as "Families of Extinction." That's the situation you've described in which a branch of a family tree dies out. The person who did much of this research, Roberta Holt, told me that about one in twenty families fit the pattern. She also told me, "There are particular patterns that go with extinction that the non-extincters interpret as 'colorful'."

One particularly interesting aspect of the pattern is that there is often a member of that branch who is sort of a "supernova" or "falling star", meaning that on the way to burning out they do amazing things with their life even if they don't reproduce. In a sense, they're the family's one last hurrah. Roberta Holt said, "Nature has a way of providing lots of interesting surprises!"

I've been noticing the extinction pattern in my family and among my cousins and have been wondering if Asturian-Americans have a higher percentage of extincters? I'd expect that immigrating would be a very disruptive process and would thus have severe side effects.

Given the stories you've told here, I think you'd find Bowen Family Systems Theory very interesting and probably helpful. I know I have. Let me know if you want some book references or the name of a local therapist or coach who has training in that.


Last edited by Art on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ronzalez



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by Ronzalez on Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4475
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron, I've sent you an email listing the best Bowen Family Systems Theory resources. Let me know if you don't get it. I'd also be interested in your thoughts on it.

If anyone else is interested, I'd be happy to send you a copy, too!

------------------------

Ron, te he enviado un correo electrónico que detalla los mejores recursos para la Teoría de Bowen sobre Sistemas Familias. Dime si no lo recibes. Estaría interesado en tus pensamientos sobre éste.

¡Si alguien más está interesado, estaré encantado de enviarle una copia, también!
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Raquel M



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: I am very sorry!!! Lo siento mucho!!!! Reply with quote

Ron, I am very sorry...but I think you need to open your mind and you
need to be more kind with yourself.I have found recently that all my friends, all my neighbors, all my parents friends are from Asturias!
Yes, Miami Cubans and they are Asturians!!!
You do not need to move to another State, here in Florida, as near as
South Florida, Asturians!!! YES!!!

Ron, lo siento mucho...pero yo creo que tu tienes que abrir mas tu mente
y tienes que ser mas dulce contigo mismo. Yo he descubierto recientemente que todas mis amistades, todos mis vecinos, todas las
amistades de mis padres son de Asturias!
Si, Cubanitos de Miami y son Asturianos!!!
No necesitas mudarte a otro estado, aqui en la Florida, tan cerca como
el sur de la Florida, Asturianos!!!!SI!!!
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Xose



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 338
Location: Washington, D.C.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron, while I understand you must be frustrated, lumping all Anglo-Saxon peoples together and painting them all with the same broad brush is just as bad as what you're reacting against.

There are vast differences in culture, tradition, language, values, and philosophies encompassed in the A-S culture. To say that someone from upstate New York is the same as someone from East Texas or West Virginia or California would equate with saying Spaniards are the same as Venezuelans and Mexicans and Salvadorenos. It is simply not true.

What's more, buying into a "corporate" culture has nothing to do with one's ethnic heritage. If you visit Spain today you will be unpleasantly surprised at the amount of commercialization and market-driven forces, I suspect.
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Ronzalez



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: I am very sorry!!! Lo siento mucho!!!! Reply with quote

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