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Can you HELP me? Me podrian AYUDAR?
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sreal



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 12
Location: mexico

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2003 4:58 pm    Post subject: Can you HELP me? Me podrian AYUDAR? Reply with quote

Hi

My name is Silvia Real Loyola, and I am a Great grand daughter of an asturian migrator. Her name was Matilde Tames Palomo daughter of Julia Palomo and Joaquin Tames.
We know they got to american continent when she was 2 years old (1886)

She had another 2 sisters (Consuelo the older and Guadalupe the little one)

She got married with Luis Grageda Horné in San Luis Potosí- Mexico.

They used to tell us that they were born in a little town in Asturias named "ARITE" I don`t know if the name has changed of worst disapered.
I can't found it anywhere.

Please can you help me localized it or any of my relatives?

I will be waiting for your answers

thank you

sreal


Hola

Mi nombre es Silvia Real Loyola y soy la bisnieta de una migrante asturiana. Su nombre es Matilde Tames Palomo hija de Julia Palomo y Joaquin Tames.

Sabemos que llegaron al continente americano cuando ella tenia 2 años (1886)

Ella tenia otras 2 hermanas, la mayor Consuelo y la menor Guadalupe.

Se caso con Luis Grageda Horne en San luis Potosi- México

Nos decian, bueno a mi madre, que eran de un pueblo llamado "ARITE" el cual no se si a desaparecido o cambiado de nombre. Me encantaria saber algo de ese lugar o de mis antepasados alla.

Agradecere cualquier informacion

Silvia real
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Bob
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
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Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2003 9:58 pm    Post subject: Arite Reply with quote

I have been unable to locate any town called Arite (or any reasonable orthographic varaint) in Asturias.

However, two possibilities occur to me. The first is that it may have been a very small town that simply disappeared within the last hundred years or so (quite a few towns did), and that its name has been lost to modern records. The second is that it may be the name of a neighborhood rather than an official town, and does not appear on standard lists of towns. For example, my grandmother was born in La Vallina, part of San Martin de Laspra near Piedras Blancas. The town shows as Laspra in some official records, and I have seen La Vallina in some birth and death records, but it is difficult or impossible to find in a Google saerch.

Have you tried writing to the Spanish consulate? Do you have any more information about your Asturian ancestors that may help narrow down the search?

There is some information on the geographic location of the Tames surname at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/surnames.tames/3

Bob Martinez
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Bob
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Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:19 pm    Post subject: Saint Arite Reply with quote

One of our members has informed me that there is a Daumazan-Saint-Arite near the border between France and Spain. See http://www.weston.front.btinternet.co.uk/cycle_tours/pyrenees/pyrenees_99.html While this is not in Asturias, it is possible that an Asturian family migrated there. I know that some of my own relatives moved to France (and ultimately to Mexico) during the Spanish civil war in the 1930's.

Bob Martinez
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Bob
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
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Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 9:01 am    Post subject: Arite and name loss or change Reply with quote

I just had another thought concerning the apparent disappearance of "Arite" as the name of a town in Asturias. The Franco regime actively suppressed the use of asturianu and other minority languages within Spain, and this may have applied to place names as well (Certainly Samartin de Laspra would have been forced to become San Martin de Laspra). Arite may have been made--almost by decree--suddenly a part of some other town with a very different name. Asturianu and castellano words for the same thing are often unrelated.

While I can find no particular meaning for "Arite" in either of the Asturian dictionaries that I have here in Connecticut, my book on the origin of Asturian toponyms is at our Massachusetts home. I'll check it for you when we return there.

Bob Martinez
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Bob
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Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 11:19 am    Post subject: Arite Reply with quote

There is no listing for "Arite" in the index of Xose Lluis Garcia Arias' book "Pueblos Asturianos: El Porque de sus Nombres", that does not mean that the town does not (or did not once) exist. There is also no listing for "Laspra".

I have not corresponded with the author, but he is at the University of Oviedo. Perhaps you could write to him.
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Art
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
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Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having a similar experience. I think Bob's suggestion about neighborhood names may be the answer. I'll explain my situation and approaches.

I'm trying to figure out where my grandmother's family is from. I'm in the opposite situation from you. In know the place, I want to know the name(s).

I think the name of the mountain or hill to the northeast [art's correction: should be northwest] of Avilés is called "San Cristóbal". On maps it appears as "Entreviñas", I think, so that may be the name for the farming community that was there. I know there's a bus line by that name. I always thought it was called "San Cristobal", but that's not common on maps. And I used to see "La Sablera" and "El Campo" in their addresses, but no longer. Instead, recently I've noticed street names using "La Sablera" and "El Campo".

My guess is that there were names for tiny neighborhoods or sections of pueblos. The people who immigrated would have known what areas they were talking about, but when we go back to look today, these distinctions may be lost or at least not used officially or catalogued.

You might try looking in alternative places. I did find some of the names being used related to church names or church locations. These may reflect older usage. Some names now appear as street names, so that's another opportunity.

After all that, I've decided to ask my cousins what they call their area, so I probably have it easier than you.


Last edited by Art on Sat May 31, 2003 12:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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Art
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Silvia,

Have you tried contacting this person: matilde grageda

Or maybe this is you under another username?

The message she posted at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.asturias/8 was:
Quote:
Her name was Matilde Tames Palomo, daugther of casto Tames and Julia Palomo. She was born in Arite (1887) in Asturias but the name of the town is no longer able to find, quess it might have change. The only thing I know, is that it had a river runnig near by.
I wonder if anybody could help me?


You may be able to learn something from each other by comparing notes.
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Bob
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Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 3:37 pm    Post subject: More on Arite and Place Names Reply with quote

Art wrote: "I think the name of the mountain or hill to the northeast of Avilés is called "San Cristóbal". If it is to the northeast, it would be in Gozón. Thinking in terms of direction reminded me that I have a fairly detailed map of Asturias. It shows no San Cristobal in Gozón, but does show three San Cristobals to the west. The first is right on the coast, north of coastal route N-632, about forty percent of the distance west from Avilés to the Galican border. The second is a a mile or two inland from the coast, not too far from Cudillero. The third is much further inland from there, near the intersection of AS-15 abnd AS-227. All three appear quite tiny (certainly under 200 inhabitants) and on very small roads.

The map shows no Arite at all.

I think that "campo" has much the same meaning in asturianu as it does in castellano. "Sablera" may be related to the "sable", an accumulation of sand. As you undoubtedly know, "sablera" is an accumulation of sand in or near an ocean or river--sand deposited by water.

I've been thinking more about "Arite". I wonder if it could be a local variant of Santa Rita (a.e., Santarite, which could be misheard as San Arite, and later simply changed to Arite.). This is obviously very speculative, and I am no expert in linguistic changes. The feminine plural ending "as" in castellano often changes or "es" in asturianu. It is an unstressed syllable. Perhaps other unstressed syllables can undergo a similar vowel shift
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Art
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're so right! I got turned around in my head. The mountain is to the northwest. And over the hill further to the northwest is Salinas, I think.

I had assumed that "La Sablera" referred to "saber/sabre" as in sword. I didn't know the "accumulation of sand" meaning.

There is another distant possibility, too. Sable in Spanish can refer to "sponging cadging, scrounging." The word for the person who is a sponger, cadger, or scrounger is "sableador/sableradora". I wondered if La Sablera was an Asturian word for this kind of person? I doubt it, but it's funny to think that an area might be named for such an irritating person.
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cilurnigi



Joined: 24 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hola, vivo en asturias y estoy siguiendo el desarrollo de este topic para ver en que podría contribuir a la busqueda del pueblo de "Arite", pero tampoco lo he hallado por ningun medio; pero se me ha ocurrido que tal vez "Arite" pueda ser el diminutivo del pueblo de "Aristebano" en castellano, "Aristebanu" en bable. (segun la costumbre asturiana de poner diminutivos a los nombres)
Según un diccionario geografico de Asturias es un lugar de la parroquia de Paredes (Valdés). Dista 17,3 km de Luarca, que es la capital del concejo.
Tiene una población de 32 habitantes. Situada en un alto muy cerca de la divisoria con el concejo de Tineo, su altitud es de 570 m. Se llega a esta braña por la carretera autonómica AS-219, en el alto de Aristebano se coge un camino. Aparece en la relación de brañas vaqueiras del concejo de Valdes que se efectuó en el año 1974. En esta braña se celebra desde el año 1959 el festival vaqueiro y de la vaqueirada.
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Art
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was in Asturias recently, I saw a used book: "Atlas de Asturias" published in 1977 by Ayalga/Edicions. Remembering this conversation, I bought the book. Unfortunately, Arite doesn't appear in the list of population centers or in the list of or the list of geographical features. It does, however, list Aristébano, that cilurnigi mentioned.

---------------
Translated by Art

Cuando fui en Asturias recientemente, vi un libro de segunda mano: "Atlas de Asturias", publicado en 1977 por Ayalga/Ediciones. Recordé esa tema, así que lo comparé. Desafortunadamente Arite no sale en el índice de núcleos habitados o el índice de accidentes geográficos. Sin embargo, el libro incluye Aristébano, como escribí cilurnigi.
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sreal



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 12
Location: mexico

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Arite Reply with quote

Bob,

I posted the message and I forgot about it for a while... of no reponse... I am back
Laughing

I really like to thank you for your interest. I have like 3 old post cards that we are looking for in alll the "old things" but it might take a while... you know how families keep stuff!!!!

I hope to find something else there in those post cards... Some other ditails in the address perhaps???

Also Art Thank you for the time you have spent in this situation....

My grand mother was born here in 1913 so... my great grand mother had to travel around 1895-1899 +/-. She had around 3 years when she took the boat from Spain....

I will make more research about all of this with the few members of the family that are still alive.

Thanks again and big kisses to all

Silvia Real
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Terechu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1554
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very intriguing, so I've been looking for Arite, too. It doesn't sound very Asturian to me, but that doesn't mean anything. While the suffix "ite" is often used as the accusative of transitive verbs in Asturian (i.e. dite, perdite, vendite - I gave you, I lost you, I sold you), it is not very common otherwise, and I could only find two villages with that ending: "La Invernite" and "Cavite", both in the municipality of San Martin del Rey Aurelio.

----------------------------------
Esto es muy misterioso, así que yo también he estado buscando Arite. No me suena muy asturiano, pero eso tampoco significa nada. Aunque el sufijo "ite" se utiliza a menudo como acusativo de verbos transitivos (díte, perdíte, vendíte), no es muy corriente por lo demás, y sólo pude encontrar dos pueblos con esa terminación: La Invernite y Cavite, ambos en S.M. del Rey Aurelio.

Saludos
Terechu
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rene



Joined: 26 Dec 2003
Posts: 3
Location: xixón

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOLA.
He encontrado en una enciclopedia el término ARITE.
Se trata de un lugar situado en el concejo de LLANES,cerca de un pueblo que se llama POSADA
He llamado al ayuntamiento de LLANES y me dicen que este sitio pertenece a la parroquia de BARRO ó de BALMORI.
Me puse en contacto con el parroco de BARRO y me dice que desconoce que exista un lugar con ese nombre,aunque me comenta que lleva poco tiempo en ese pueblo y puede desconocerlo.
He comprobado que por la zona de LLANES aún aparecen persona con el apellidoTAMES .
Si encuentro nuevos datos los iré publicando.
Un saludo
RENE

-----------
translated by Art

HI
I have found in an encyclopedia the term ARITE
It is the name of a place located in the council/district/township of LLANES, close to a village called POSADA.
I have called the city government of LLANES, y they tell me that this place is part of the parish of BARRO or od BALMORI.
They put me in contact with the parish of BARRO, who tell me that they are unaware that a place with that name exists, although they also tell me that they've not been in that village for long, and [simply] might not know of it.
I have checked for the area of LLANES, where there still are people with the last name TAMES.
If I discover new facts, I'll announce them.
Best regards,
RENE
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Sweeney



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 205
Location: Virgina

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject: Tames Reply with quote

I went to www.infobel.com to see if there is anybody with the surname TAMES living in Llanes. There are 26 people with that surname listed.

Check out this link (it's the same as the link below, which is too long to make clickable):
http: //www.infobel.com/spain/wp/search/result.asp?qcitycode=&qstreetcode=&qnacecode=&qcode=20767923
&qlastName=tames&qcity=llanes&Search.x=45&Search.y=20

Then click on the search button to get the list.

You might want to write these people to see if you are related to each other. That is what I did to find my family in Asturias. I found about 8 different cousins.

Good luck! Cool
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