FAQFAQ          SearchSearch          MemberlistMemberlist          UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile          Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages          Log inLog in          
Asturians are descendants of Jews
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Asturian-American Migration Forum Index -> About Asturias - Sobre Asturies
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mouguias



Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Location: Asturies

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venga ya!! No me lo trago.
Estos estudios de ADN parece que solo existen para dar titulares a los periodicos, cada uno desmiente el anterior. No veo que se haya confirmado, de momento, una teoria coherente sobre las migraciones antiguas de las poblaciones humanas.
Hace un par de años decian que los britanicos eran descendientes de pescadores asturianos prehistoricos, ahora nos dicen que somos un cruce de moros y judios. No me fastidies!
Esperare unos cuantos años antes de empezar a tomarme en serio estos estudios, cuando haya un consenso cientifico asentado.
En cuanto a los asturianos, no veo nada en nuestra historia ni en nuestra cultura que apunte a una influencia judia ni mucho menos arabe especialmente marcada, todo lo contrario. Veo una cultura campesina tipica de la Europa atlantica.
Por otro lado, comprendo que este artículo pueda parecerles atractivo a algunos. Ataca los viejos prejuicios y los mitos de origen de los asturianos. Es todo muy “políticamente correcto”. Lo gracioso es que la misma gente que desprecian todo lo que huela a asturiano, los mismos que no se han molestado jamás en leer ni un simple artículo sobre nuestra herencia o nuestra historia, los mismos que se burlan del asturianismo como “cuchu y madreñes”, son los que corren a tumbar lo que entienden que son nuestros mitos fundadores.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Come on! I don`t buy it.
Seems like these DNA studies exist only to provide newspapers with headlines, each new one debunks the former. I don`t see that any theory has been confirmed so far about ancient migrations of human populations.
A couple of years ago they said that Britons are descendants of Stone Age Asturian fishermen. Now they say that we are a Moor-Jewish mixture. Get outta here!
I will wait some more years before I start to take seriously these researches, when a scientific consensus has been settled.
As to Asturians, I don`t see anything neither in our history or our culture (language, food, legends, traditions) which points to a strong Jewish, let alone Arab influence, quite the opposite. All the available information confirms that things have remained basically the same between the Roman invasion and the Industrial Revolution. Asturian is just a typical Atlantic Europe farming culture.
On the other side, I see why this research may be appealing to some. It hits the old racial prejudices and the origin myths of the Asturian people. This is all very “politically correct”. The funny thing is, the same people who just despise anything remotely Asturian, those who haven`t ever bothered to read one single paper on our heritage or our history, the same who mock Asturian culture as “cuchu y madreñes”, “manure and wooden shoes”, are so quick and happy to bash what they perceive as our founding myths.
Back to top  
Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Inquisition changed forever how people would make references to their lanuage, food, legends, history, genealogy, and traditions. Even Columbus was questioned after he had described strange lights in the sky as resembling a Menorah in his log books. I strongly believe that DNA points the way to our heritage and culture, and any relationships or connections to the rest of humanity.

Manny---Asturies, para siempre!
Back to top  
Mouguias



Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 151
Location: Asturies

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manuell Alvarez wrote:
The Inquisition changed forever how people would make references to their lanuage, food, legends, history, genealogy, and traditions. Even Columbus was questioned after he had described strange lights in the sky as resembling a Menorah in his log books. I strongly believe that DNA points the way to our heritage and culture, and any relationships or connections to the rest of humanity.


Where and when did Inquisition carry out such terrible pogroms in Asturias? Sorry, when was even ONE pogrom inflicted upon Asturian Jews?
Just for the sake of comparison, you can check the chuetas from Mallorca. There you`ve got a real minority of converted Jews. Well, there are plenty of hints in written records and even in their traditions, that they are the descendants of Mallorcan Jews. They live in a city, to begin with, in an isolated quarter. Easy to see, easy to track, easy to prove.
Do you want me to believe that the relatively small medieval Jewish community of Asturias at some point simply scattered in the countryside?
They just learned to build round houses like those from the ancient “castros” (these round houses remained inhabited until the 20th century in some areas) and grow pigs?
They gave up trade and writing to became illiterates, as most Asturian farmers used to be, then developed a half – pagan culture, reminiscent of Basque and Celtic mythology?
Out of the blue they started telling lays and tales by the fireside about Christian warriors defeating the Moors, enchanted faeries on Midsummer`s eve, dragons and changellings?
And these invisible, indetectable Jews who didn`t leave any written record turned out to be HALF THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE COUNTRY?
I think it is much easier to believe that the research is just wrong.
It`s annoying. Once and again, Asturian culture is plain ignored. Mainstream media and the public will buy the craziest, dumbest theory instead of just read, study and reflect on the vaste heritage that Asturian farmers have preserved for them across the centuries.
For years, I have been researching all that I could gather about our traditions. I am not saying that I am an expert, not in the least! However, each time, I came to discover something which dazzled and amazed me. And each time it grew harder for me to understand why does this society rejects and despises all that is Asturian with such fierceness.
Back to top  
Manuell Alvarez



Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very proud of my Asturian heritage and history. Unfortunately, there will always be some people who have difficulty understanding and appreciating us and our diverse culture. There are even some who can not appreciate the perspective of others and wish to impose their often distorted views.

I am equally proud of my Asturian, grandfather, a farmer from the Grado region; although blind, he had the vision to send my father and his children to America. I am extremely proud of my parents and grandparents.

DNA results reinforce my feelings and beliefs. No rewrite of history can change our unique connections and relationships to the rest of mankind. The detailed documentation on the Inquisition are sealed in Rome. One can request them from the Vatican.

Manny
Back to top  
dario



Joined: 25 Dec 2017
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: ashkenazi Reply with quote

I heard many years ago that our ancestors were Jews. it stuck in my memory. Then I thought: but if everyone is in the Cuenca Minera... there are Pérez Zapico, there are Vallina Iglesias until there was a Pérez Bernardo-Rúa ... as much Sephardim ...Years later I've done a DNA test and tells me that it is true: I have a great-great-grandfather or father of great-great-grandfather Jew ... not Sephardi but Ashkenazi from Eastern Europe ... life gives you surprises the DNA more THIS IS MY 1ST POST, I HOPE IT HELPS

Terechu wrote:
That's not exactly what it says: the study group was only 150 individuals (we don't know where from in Asturias) and the result was that one in five had at least one Jewish ancestor on the paternal side. On the other side, they also say that 2 out of 10 ( isn't it the same as in 1 out of 5?) Spaniards had a Jewish ancestor. So much for the would-be kelts... but let's not forget that we've been here for several thousand years and have hundreds of non-Jewish ancestors.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Eso no es exactamente lo que dice: se estudió un grupo de 150 individuos (no sabemos de qué parte de Asturias) y el resultado fue que uno de cada 5 tenían al menos un antepasado judío por vía paterna. Por otra parte también dice que 2 de cada 10 (no es lo mismo que 1 de cada 5?) españoles tienen un antepasado judío. Eso para los percélticos...pero no olvidemos que llevamos miles de años en esta tierra y tenemos cientos de ancestros no judíos.
Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top  
Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4471
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome, Dario!

Which DNA test did you use? Do you think it had enough detail?
Back to top  
dario



Joined: 25 Dec 2017
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MyHeritage. Some data were tested with family stories about a paternal gran-gran-father called the english, but irish-welsh or scottish as said dna. and are right. Later I upload data files to Promethease an confirmed an Ashkenazi polymorphism.
Back to top  
Indalecio Fernandez



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 167
Location: San Martín de Podes, Gozón, Asturias

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creo que la muestra para ese estudio de ADN se recogio en Avilés, en la explanada del Centro Neimeyer. Nada mas que añadir.
Es decir, no fue en Tuiza, Lena, no fue en Belmonte, ni en Cangas del Narcea, ni siquiera en Luanco, fue en Avilés. No es fiable, en absoluto.
Back to top  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Asturian-American Migration Forum Index -> About Asturias - Sobre Asturies All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Site design & hosting by

Zoller Wagner Digital Design