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DOÑA LETIZIA ORTÍZ, LA PRINCESA DE ASTURIAS
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Ramón



Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: España

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:53 am    Post subject: DOÑA LETIZIA ORTÍZ, LA PRINCESA DE ASTURIAS Reply with quote

Doña Letizia es asturiana e hija adoptiva de Ribadesella, donde tiene sus orígenes familiares. Creo que en ella se dan dos características fundamentales para ser una buena reina de España, además de cultura e inteligencia: elegancia y belleza: http://visionesderibadesella.blogspot.com/2009/02/musica-en-el-paseo-de-la-princesa.html

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Trans. Is

Dona Letizia is Asturian and an honorary citizen of Ribadesella [Ribesella], her family's hometown. In my opinion, she has two character traits that would make her a very good queen of Spain, in addition to her education and intelligence: elegance and beauty: http://visionesderibadesella.blogspot.com/2009/02/musica-en-el-paseo-de-la-princesa.html
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Berodia



Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Cabrales

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me gustaría dejar constancia que la familia de esta señora es de cualquier parte menos de Ribadesella. Otra cosa es que la propaganda monárquica insista en esa falsedad porque queda como más noble que la susodicha sea de Asturias que de Castilla, y los de Ribadesella vean en el tema una oportunidad para atraer turismo y subir de categoría. Por ahora, ya les pusieron el Impuesto de Bienes Inmuebles adecuado a ser concejo monárquico...

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Trans. Is

I'd like to make it clear that this woman's family is certainly not from Ribadesella [Ribesella]. This may a product of the monarchist propaganda which has entrenched the false idea that she is from there mainly to bolster her nobility credentials, in a way because it's more noble to trace one's origins to Asturias rather than Castile. There's also the fact that people in Ribadesella may have seized on the opportunity to attract tourism and thus become a magnet for high-end visitors. For now, they've already slapped on a new property tax that is more fitting for monarchist counties...
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Ramón



Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: España

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hola Berodia, pero que te ha hecho la princesa Letizia? denoto en tus palabras cierto resentimiento hacia ella. A mi me encanta y aprecio mucho a los príncipes de Asturias y estoy muy orgulloso de ellos ( y así piensan muchos españoles). Me gusta que dignifiquen el nombre de España por el mundo, con su clase, elegancia y cultura. Además representan , junto a su majestad Juan Carlos I el espíritu de nuestra democracia y nuestras libertades, además de recordarnos las glorias que hicieron grande a nuestro país

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Trans. Is

hi Berodia, what has princess Letizia done to you? I sense a certain resentment toward her in your words. I think she's lovely and greatly appreciate the princes of Asturias and am very proud of them ( and that is how many Spaniards think). I like it that [they] enhance the name of Spain around the world with their good taste, elegance and education. Additionally, they represent, next to his majesty Juan Carlos I the spirit of our democracy and our freedoms, as well as reminding us of the glories that made Spain great
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Berodia



Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Cabrales

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todo lo que tú quieras. Incluso puede que hasta sea hija del mismísimo Zeus. Pero eso no quita que los orígenes no los tiene en Ribadesella, y que la familia "asturiana", la abuelísima, no lo es.

No voy a entrar a comentar chácharas patrioteras. Solo sé que yo no nací para ser un siervo (al menos por voluntad propia) y no reconozco las clases sociales, aunque algunos señores se crean superiores a los demás por voluntad divina o del dictador que se tercie, y por ello los demás tengamos que mantenerlos.

Cada cual se siente orgulloso de lo que quiere. Yo, por ejemplo, de que broten unas semillas de zanahoria que plantamos. Wink

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Trans. Is

Whatever you say. She may even be the daughter of Zeus himself. But that does not take away the fact that her family origins are not in Ribadesella/Ribesella and that her "Asturian" family really is no such thing, starting with her grandmother, who is not Asturian.

I'm not going to discuss sappy patriotic cliches. All I know is that I was not born to be anybody's slave (at least not by my free will) and I hesitate to recognize social classes, even if some people continue to think of themselves as superior to others by virtue of some sort of divine property or by whatever dictator happened to be ruling at the time. I don't like having to maintain them either [with my taxes].

Each person is proud of whatever he/she is proud. I, for example, am proud that the carrots we planted are finally showing through. Wink
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is
Moderator


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Yaoundé

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this topic--whether Leticia, the Asturian-born former reporter turned wife of Spain's crown prince is or is not a hall of famer--lends itself to an online poll.

In my case, I'm certainly very far from Ramon's Spanish nationalist point of view ('mother country', what mother country?). In my family, through experiences in the US, France, Mexico and Cuba, few must have held such 'mother country' views. Their homeland was Asturias, not Spain, which was too generic for them.

There is also a great deal of myth-making behind the role of Spain's King Juan Carlos during the 1970s transition from dictatorship to multiparty democracy. For years, people decided to keep mum and be charitable with their criticism. But people are more intelligent than that, fortunately.

As for Leticia or Letizia, the only thing in the back of my mind is how someone with her intelligence (I remember her good coverage of 9/11) is now no more than a figurehead of purported 'elegance'. I"m certainly indifferent, as most Asturians are, but it'd be an interesting topic to explore.

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Trans. Is

Peimeque esti tema seique taria bien pa un online poll, pa entrugar a la xente si Letizia, la muyer del principe de la corona espanola, tien sou l.lugar no Hall of Fame.

You tou muitu l.lonxe del puntu de vista nacionalista espanol de Ramon ('madre patria', que madre patria?). Na mia familia, dende la esperiencia de xente que viviu no esiliu ou la emigracion en USA, Francia, Mexico ya Cuba, cuido que fonon bien poucos los que falaran de 'madre patria'. El sou sitiu yera Asturias, non Espana que-ys abultaba mas xenericu.

Tamen cuido que hai abondos mitos alrrodiu del papel que feixo el rey Juan Carlos na transicion d'Espana de dictadura a democracia multipartidista nos anos 70. Muitos anos la xente cal.lou ya criticabase pouco la transicion. Pero la xente ia mas sutil qu'eso, afortunadamente.

No que cinca Leticia ou Letizia, inda hai algo que nun sou a entender mui bien. Cumo ia que una muyer de la sua intelixencia (tou alcordandome de los sous reportaxes sobre'l 11 de setiembre de la que trabayaba de periodista) de sopitu tresformouse nun icono de supuesta 'elegancia'. You, cumo muitos asturianos, sou mas bien indiferente a esto, pero cuido que paga la pena falar d'el.lo.


Last edited by is on Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ramón



Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: España

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hola is y berodia. Vamos a ver. estais hablando del jefe del estado español como si fuera el rey Arturo, Pelayo o carlomagno, como de un legendario monarca de Avalón o algo así. Por favor, que es la persona que sanciona nuestras leyes!. Es un hecho democrático que fue aceptado democraticamente por la mayoria de los españoles.

Con respecto a ser español o asturiano, yo considero (y el 100% de los asturianos, pues democraticamente eligieron representantes de partidos españoles PSOE, PP, IU, en el parlamento asturiano) que los asturianos son naturalmente españoles, como los de cuenca, albacete o sevilla.

Hablo desde el punto de vista democrático español (no nacionalista español, eso se lo dejo a gente que de valor a diferencias étnicas, yo no).

Pero vamos a ver ¿que hay de malo en ser español?

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Trans. Is

hi Is and Berodia. Let's see. You're talking about Spain's head of state as if he were King Arthur, Pelayo or Charlemagne, or some legendary king from Avalon. Please, he is in fact the person who approves our laws! It's a democratic fact democratically sanctioned by the majority of Spaniards.

As for being Spanish or Asturian, I naturally consider Asturians to be Spaniards, just as much as people from Cuenca, Albacete or Seville. After all, 100% of Asturias voted for representatives of Spanish-based parties PSOE, PP and IU [IX].

I'm speaking from a democratic, Spanish point of view (not Spanish nationalist, which I tend to attribute to people who value ethnic differences, which I do not).

Let's see, what is wrong with being Spanish?
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Raquel M



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 609
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: Interesante la conversacion.... Reply with quote

Esta conversacion esta muy interesante, porque me recuerda que en
Cuba a todos los Espanoles se les llama " gallegos" pero...mi madre
siempre decia "que su familia era de Asturias, distancia y categoria...."
entonces hay algo de los Asturianos que los hace especiales o diferentes
al resto de Espana.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4477
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Democracy or not, I wonder if most national leaders don't become quazi-royalty. In part, we, their public, put them there as much as (or perhaps more than) they strive for that status. Obama is the latest example. (I'm not criticizing him, just observing his ascent, perhaps temporary, to near divine status.)

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Democracia o no, me pregunto si la mayoría de los líderes nacionales no se conviertan en ser casi realeza. En parte, nosotros, su público, los ponemos allí tanto como (o tal vez más que) ellos se esfuerzan por esa categoría. Obama es el último ejemplo. (No estoy criticando, simplemente observando su ascensión, tal vez temporal, a esta condición casi divina.)
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Raquel M



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 609
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Bueno..... Reply with quote

I don't think so...the Republican Presidents we had were very humble .

Yo no creo eso...los Presidentes Republicanos que hemos tenido han

sido todos muy sencillos.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4477
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you kidding or serious, Raquel?

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¿Estás bromeando o lo digas en seria, Raquel?
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is
Moderator


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Yaoundé

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to give you a perspective of all-out royalty here in Bahrain, where meritocracy (like in Asturias) does not really exist, imagine everything needs the seal of approval of the King.

You find billboards all over the island (pop. 1.1 million, if you count the 600,000 workers from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and the Philippines). Divine status? In practice yes, although not in theory. Bahrain is comparatively 'liberal' compared to Saudi Arabia. In fact, this is where Saudis travel to on weekends because movie theaters are legal. Imagine that.

The monarchy in Spain is largely symbolic in comparison. Although people consume all the trash glossy magazines (Hola, etc) and actually pay money for them. That said, 'celebrity' culture in Spain is freakish and includes the royal family, even if the paparazzi aren't supposed to touch that subject. But it's definitely one of the less attractive things about contemporary Spanish culture, in my view.




Last edited by is on Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Berodia



Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Cabrales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Sobre lo que escribió Is]
Pero aquí, también tiene cierto carácter de "divinidad", de ser superior, de estar por encima de los demás, cosa que consagra la constitución otorgada de 1978. Ahí se dice que es irresponsable e inviolable.
Quiere eso decir, que además de títulos más o menos rimbombantes, como el de "rey católico", no hay que olvidar que los monarcas lo son todos por la "gracia divina", es impune. Es decir que podría delinquir con total impunidad. Cualquier demanda contra su persona es siempre inadmitida a trámite. Es más, quien lo denunciase se vería perseguido por injurias. Vamos, casi como un dios. Lo único que lo diferencia de este, es que es mortal (y menos mal).

Para que os hagáis una idea. El siguiente artículo habla de un señor que llevó las finanzas del jefe del estado, y que tuvo sus problemas con la justicia, como otros muchos amigos del monarca. Por ejemplo, Los Albertos se salvaron de la cárcel gracias al dedo divino.

Manuel Prado o el valido*

*http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valido
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Raquel M



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 609
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Yes Reply with quote

Yes Art, I am serious, the Republican Presidents we had were very
humble people.
The Republican Presidents never used the presidential plane for a short
trip to New York for a romantic dinner ....


Si Art, lo digo en serio, los Presidentes Republicanos que hemos tenido
han sido personas sencillas.
Los Presidentes Republicanos nunca usaron el avion presidencial por un
corto viaje a Nueva York para una comida romantica...
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4477
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raquel, I was 70% sure you were joking. I'd be curious to hear how one would defend such a statement.

I don't think humble people typically make it to the presidency.

Perhaps we should compare an evening in NYC to a number of years in Iraq. President GW Bush, a Republican, in a speech about taking action against Sadam Hussein indicated that he wanted to avenge his father.

GW Bush himself said, "This is a guy that tried to kill my dad at one time. I take my responsibility seriously as the Commander-in-Chief. I want you to know I understand the -- how serious it is to commit our troops."

That's straight from the Bush White House archives: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020926-17.html

So, how many government planes, how many lives of servicemen and women, and how many tax dollars have been and are still being used to avenge his father?

When you're president you have to go to extra lengths to get a night out with your spouse. I might not choose to go to NYC, but I don't begrudge any president some family time. Even then, the Secret Service will always be there. I'm sure GW Bush took plenty of trips and vacations on our tax dollar. It was widely reported that he was on vacation more than the typical US president.

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Raquel, estaba 70% seguro de que estabas bromeando. Me interesaría oír cómo se podría defender esa declaración.

No creo que gente humilde suele llegar a la presidencia.

Tal vez deberíamos comparar una noche en Nueva York a unos años en Irak. El presidente GW Bush, un Republicano, en un discurso sobre la adopción de medidas contra Sadam Hussein, indicó que quería vengar a su padre.

GW Bush dijo, "Este es un hombre que intentó matar a mi padre una vez. Asumo mi responsabilidad en serio como el Comandante en Jefe. Quiero que sepa que comprendo al -- lo grave que sea la comisión de nuestras tropas."

Ese es directamente de los archivos de la Casa Blanca de Bush: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020926-17.html

Entonces, ¿cuántos aviones del gobierno, cuántas vidas de muchos hombres y mujeres militares, y cuántos dólares de nuestros impuestos han sido y siguen siendo utilizados para vengar a su padre?

Cuando una persona es presidente tiene que ir a extremos para conseguir una salida nocturna con su cónyuge. Quizás yo no elegiría ir a Nueva York, pero no negar a ningún presidente un rato con su familia. Aún así, el Servicio Secreto siempre estará ahí. Estoy seguro de que GW Bush asumió una gran cantidad de viajes y vacaciones usando dólares de nuestros impuestos. Se informó ampliamente que fue de vacaciones más que lo normal para un presidente de los EE.UU.
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Raquel M



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 609
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:09 am    Post subject: Just a second.... Reply with quote

Ok, just a second. I said " ...the Republican Presidents we had were very humble .
President Bush went to his Texas ranch for vacations!!!
The war, the cost, the motives, etc... is a different thing ! ...but wait a few
months and you will see who's the big spender here !
The honeymoon is ending....
I want to say that I want President Obama to succeed.


Ok, espera un segundo. Yo dije "..los Presidentes Republicanos que hemos
tenido han sido muy sencillos"
El Presidente Bush se iba a su rancho de Texas en las vacaciones!!!
La guerra, el costo, los motivos, etc...es una cosa diferente!...pero espera
unos pocos meses y tu veras quien es el que esta gastando mas aqui !
La luna de miel se esta acabando...
Yo quiero decir que quiero que el Presidente Obama triunfe en todo lo que
haga.
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