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asturias, heterogéneo
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tierradenadie



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 253
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:22 am    Post subject: asturias, heterogéneo Reply with quote

Quote:
iS: You're right, Villamil, in West Asturias (very few people know this area) people speak both West Asturian and Galician-Asturian.


http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2626&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=8b8e5f5602f24b885091a7e1a706336b


iS, sigues refiriendo al oeste de asturias { donde se encuentran tus raíces ~ ? }.

¿hay tan grandes diferencias entre varios partes de asturias? ¿cuáles son? ¿alguien puede esbozar la paleta asturiana? podría ayudarme en mi preparación a localizar un campamento base, y también dónde podría comenzar la búsqueda de una choza, etc, para comprar. gracias, peter

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Trans. Is

Is, you keep referring to West Asturias { where your family roots are ?}. Are the differences within Asturias so stark? What are they? Can someone give me the lowdown on the Asturian palette? It would help me prepare to set up a base camp and where to start looking for some kind of shelter to buy. Thanks, Peter
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is
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: asturias, heterogéneo Reply with quote

tierradenadie wrote:
iS, sigues refiriendo al oeste de asturias { donde se encuentran tus raíces ~ ? }. ¿hay tan grandes diferencias entre varios partes de asturias? ¿cuáles son?


I think you'll find out when you get there and see for yourself. Some people prefer East Asturias because of its alpine landscapes and karstic mountains. I don't know the area that well to be able to give you advice. But I do know that there is much more tourism there (lakes at Cuadonga/Covadonga, second homes for city people around Llanes, hordes of summer tourists in the Picos d'Europa, etc.) and that makes it less appealing for someone fleeing the IRT.

In my case, the preference for West Asturias is subjective and shouldn't be the basis for your own decision. However, if you are looking for quiet, wild places where Asturian culture is fairly intact (and interesting) and tourism is unheard of, I'd look into a base in West Asturias. You'll find fogbound villages with slate roofs and in places like Doiras (if you ever kayak or swim in the dam of the River Navia), a magical silence. You've been looking at Miki Lopez's photographs of the 78 counties. They should give you a pretty accurate idea of what it's like.

Btw, I've skipped Central Asturias, which has the highest population concentration (Uvieu, Xixon, Aviles). These are small towns (Xixon is about 270,000) where you can do most things you would do in New York, albeit at a smaller scale. But my experience is that I tend to get saturated by the conservatism there and invariably head toward the mountains...of West Asturias. That's one view. Let's hear from others.

Here, btw, is a picture of the hamlet of Pontenova, in County Ayande, West Asturias. Pontenova is where I buy honey in bulk for my parents. Mario, the local beekeeper, sells jars of heather honey there at 4 euros/kg. Time there is suspended.

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Peimeque veis velo tu mesmo bien ceu. Hai xente a quien-y gusta l'oriente d'Asturias pol paisaxe alpin ya las muntanas de tipu karstico. Nun conozo la zona bien pa date conseyos. Pero si que sei que hai muitu turismo p'al.lo (l.lagos de Cuadonga, casas na redolada de Llanes pa xente de fora, masificacion de turistas nos branos pa Picos d'Europa, etc.) ya eso fai que nun me paeza mui aquel.lo pa alguien que fuxe del IRT.

No miou casu, el tiron del oucidente asturianu ia suxetivu ya nun tendria qu'influir na tua decision. Pero si tas a la gueta de silenciu ya sitios xabaces au la cultura asturiana inda ta abondo viva (ya ia interesante), amas de sitios de pouco turismo, entos you tiraria pal oucidente. Alcontraras aldeas pequenas con teitos de l.louxa (pizarra) ya en banzaos cumo el de Doiras (si veis p'al.lo en kayak ou nalando), un silenciu maxicu. Xa vieras las semeyas de los 78 conceyos asturianos na gueb de la LNE (Miki Lopez). Dexuro que te dan una idea de cumo son esos l.lugares.

Por cierto, esqueiciera el centro d'Asturies, que ia au ta la mayor parte de la poblacion (Uvieu, Xixon, Aviles). Son ciudaes pequenas (Xixon tien unos 270.000 habitantes) pero podes fader tou lo que tas avezau a fader en Nova York, seique en mas pequeno. La mia esperiencia ia que despueis d'un ratin entama a saturame lo conservadores que son nas ciudaes ya tiro pal monte...d'oucidente. Eso ia namai un puntu de vista. A ver si escuitamos los d'outros foreiros.

Aiqui vei una foto de Pontenova, no Conceyu d'Ayande (Allande), oucidente d'Asturias. Pontenova ia'l l.lugar au merco miel pa los mious pais. Mario, que ia'l rapaz que tien nun sei si 300 trobos, fai miel d'uz ya vende'l kilo a 4 euros. En Pontenova paez qu'el tiempu nun esiste.

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tierradenadie



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: asturias, heterogéneo Reply with quote

Is wrote:

Mario, the local beekeeper, sells jars of heather honey there at 4 euros/kg. Time there is suspended.


tengo un montón de preguntas pero el parte castellano de me cerebro corre como un caracol @ entonces voy a cortarlo @ por ejemplo:

a_ la densidad de población rural: cuando leo que escribes, iS, podría suponer que hay menos gente en el oeste de asturias rural que en comparación con el este rural. ¿es verdad?

b_ ¿cómo afecta la situación más aislado de el oeste los precios de las propiedades?

p.s. the picture you sent looks too damn good to be true. where's the catch, laugh.

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Trans. Is

I have reams of questions but the Castilian Spanish part of my brain is as fast as a snail so here are a few questions:

a_population density in the countryside: from what I gather, Is, are there less people living in West Asturian rural areas compared to East Asturias? Is that right?

b_How does geographic distance in West Asturias affect property prices?

p.s. the picture you sent looks too damn good to be true. where's the catch, laugh.

p.p.s: and yes, I'd like to hear back from other people living in Asturias or know the countryside well. Thanks.
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tierradenadie



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y, ya, otra más:

c_ ¿cual áreas/aldeas del oeste te gustan más?

{ espero que no os molesto demasiado, pero, pues: once a pencil-pusher, always a hack. }

{{ bevor's mir entfällt, iS, wieviel macht der 4europrokilohonig einschließlich flugschein? ~ grinsen, nichts für ungut, ich schmier dir nur ein bißchen honig ums maul. kannst mich digital abwatschen* wenn's zuviel ist/wird -- ¿qué te parece si me eñsenes un poco babel, nono, es broma, he aprendido esto ya: bable ~ y sucesivamente podría eñsenarte un poco: oberbayerisch ~ ? }}
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is
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Camin de Santiau Reply with quote

It just occurred to me today that you should do the Camin de Santiau (Camino de Santiago, St James Way) on your bike so you can discover for yourself what Asturias is like from east to west.

It starts in Roncesvalles (Orreaga, in Basque), in Navarre, on the border with France. And if you do the Primitive Way (I think that's the official name), it will take you through the Basque Country, Cantabria and then Asturias. The inns along the way should be free as long as you're an 'official' pilgrim en route to Santiago de Compostela. You need something they call a 'pilgrim's passport' from the monastery at Roncesvalles.

I think that would be a good (cheap) way to discover for yourself what Asturias is like county by county. I'll see what websites might come handy if you're interested.

The honey at Pontenova: it's amazing to get your hands on such pure, creamy heather honey. Plenty of abandoned villages there to explore and get lost in...
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Art
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that's a great idea, Is. I hope I don't get to be too old before I have time to walk the Route of Saint James myself. I've walked short sections of it, one of them with you and Busto!

There is interesting variety in the landscape of Asturias. In the East the mountains and canyons are awesomely rugged. In the West I'm more impressed by the vast quietness and mile after mile of steep land without many people. The cliffs near the sea are also very moving, but as Is says there are a lot of people visiting and living near them.

To me, the cities in Asturias are extremely human and social. I'm always impressed when I meet friends on the street. You can walk them easily and there is plenty going on for entertainment, if that's of interest to you. The people tend to be very friendly, absolutely nothing like NYC. Transportatoin around the cities is generally pretty good. One could live very comfortably in Avilés, Gijón, or Oviedo without a car. I know that I could be a city dweller in Asturias and love it.

If i were to live in the mountains, though, I'd want a car. I'm not sure I'd like living in the countryside of Asturias. Visually, yes, it's as good or better than Is' photos. Especially in the mountains of Western Asturias, the camera can't capture the roughed immensity that lies in every direction you look. It's stunning. But I don't like driving long distances and it strikes me that if you want to do anything (play music with friends, take part in a festival, go shopping in the big city, meet with like-minded people), you'd probably have to drive elsewhere, perhaps for one-three hours. Now I could be wrong and your experience would certainly be different. Looking at my own life patterns in the US, when I get settled in somewhere, it's usually hard to get me to get me to leave my home. I sometimes put off shopping for days even though the stores are only 5-10 miles away!

It might be oversimplification, but it appears to me that the further you get from Oviedo in any direction, the less dense the population is, but Western Asturias probably wins that prize. Population centers seem to be strung along the major roads. I've only done a little research on property prices, but it looks like property in or near small towns is less expensive the further you go from Oviedo, as long as they aren't along the coast or in an touristy cutesy village. I don't know if anything is cheap, though. Two factors that increase the desirability and price are being commuting distance to jobs in the main cities and being near a tourist area. The beaches are Asturias' main tourist magnets, but there are also a number of vacation homes in some mountain areas.

[Lo siento que no tengo el tiempo traducirlo, pero puedo decirte que es un himno al paisaje y pueblo asturiano.]

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Trans. Is

Si que ye una bona idea, Is. Yo polo menos espero que nun m’entre la vieyera primero de facer el Camin de Santiau. Ya tuviera caleyando nel Camin, un d’ellos contigo y con Busto [nel conceyu d’Ayande (Allande)]!
Asturies tien un paisaxe que varia muncho. Pal oriente ties cordales y foces impresionantes. Pa occidente lo mas ablucante seique ye’l silenciu grandonon kilometro tres kilometro de tarren pindiu con poca xente. Los cantiles xunto la mar tamien emocionen, pero como diz Is, hai bien de xente nes marines.

No que cinca les ciudaes, son al mio paecer mui humanes y sociales. Siempre ye agradable topase con xente conocio na cai. Tan bien pa caleyar y hai muncho que facer culturalmente, si eso ye del to interes. La xente ye mui campechano tamien, nun tien nin un res que ver con Nueva York. El tresporte nun ta mal nos centros urbanos. Pue vivise bien ensin coche en sitios como Aviles, Xixon o Uvieu. Yo taria la mar de contento viviendo nuna ciuda asturiana.

Agora, si tuviera viviendo nel interior fairiame falta un coche. Nun toi seguru que me prestara vivir nuna aldea asturiana. Superficialmente si, ye igual o meyor que nes semeyes d’Is. Sobremanera pal interior d’occidente. La camara nun ye quien a garrar esa inmensida del paisaxe mires au mires. Ye ablucante. Pero a min nun me presta tar al volante y si quies tocar musica colos collacios o dir a un festival, o mercer na ciuda y alcontrate con xente afin, igual ties que meter 1-3 hores.

Igual m’enquivoco y tu ties otru xeitu. Pero na mio esperiencia, de la que toi nun llugar nuevu, resultame enguedeyao dexar la casina. Hai dies nos que nun salgo mercer porque tengo les tiendes a 5-10 milles d’equi!

Igual esto ye una simplificacion, pero lo mas llonxe que tas d’Uvieu [Oviedo], menos xente alcontraras. Sicasi, l’occidente se lleva’l premiu. Los nucleos de poblacion tan allugaos xunto les arteries principales. Los precios de la vivienda tamien son menos caros de la que t’allonxes de la capital, polo menos si nun tas nuna villa marinera d’eses que-y gusta a la xente. Sicasi, cuido que nun hai nada barato. Hai dos coses que fain que xuban los precios: distancia a sitios au trabaya la xente y cercania a llugares de turismo. Los sablones asturianos fain d’imanes turisticos. Tamien hai pisos de turismo p’allugar nes montanes del interior.
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tierradenadie



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Camin de Santiau Reply with quote

Is wrote:
It just occurred to me today that you should do the Camin de Santiau ... I'll see what websites might come handy if you're interested.


suena encantador, iS. munches gracies por this heads-up. deberías escribir un libro sobre asturias, pues, si no 'deberías' (me) parece que podrías { wie's so schön auf deutsch heißt: du gleichst einem wandelnden nachschlagewerk, sí, también ein wörterbuch - casi me ruborizo de envidia; beinah vor neid erblassen }

y, sí, por favor, si encontrarás más información sobre el camin-de-santiau, etc, pita. danke, peter

p.d. estoy llevándome muy bien con los monjes ~ con tal de que no vamos a hablar religiones { belief-systems }, aunque casi no hay una cosa más divertido! aaah, las filosofíaaas » el sal de la vida!

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Trans. Is

It sounds charming, Is. Thanks for the heads up. You should write a book about Asturias because I think you could do it. {as they say in German, you're like a walking reference book, and also a dictionary - I'm almost blushing or pale with envy }

And yes, please, any information on the Camin de Santiau, etc., thanks, peter

p.s. I get along famously with the monks, as long as we don't talk religion { belief systems }, although on second thought few things are more fun! Ah, philosophy--the salt of life!
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tierradenadie



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Camin de Santiau Reply with quote

Is wrote:

The honey at Pontenova: it's amazing to get your hands


a propósito: hacer{?} miel es parte de mi lista de cosas que podría hacer { quiero decir: might do... hiciera? } cuando quedaré sin moscas. pero tal vez haré de todos modos. estaría seguro que la gente que vive en el campo y tiene tanto conocimiento { sí, es sabiduría } no le disgusta a enseñar un poco a un germarican* algunos pet-tricks**.

* entonces, quizás en el futuro soy un germaricasturiano? { sounds like latin for a long extinct critter }

** hablando de enseñando: ¿qué opináis: tal vez podría enseñar unos niños del campo un poco english, o incluso: deutsch. voy a tener tanto tiempo libre, y, suelo estoy aburrido -- jaja, después de todo, tal vez debería escuchar a los monjes. ß

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Trans. Is

By the way, making (?) honey is on my to-do list { I mean, things I may do } when I am free of the flies. But maybe I'll do it anyway. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the countryside with know-how { yes, wisdom } and that they don't mind teaching a German-American a few tricks.

I wonder if I'm going to be seen as a German-American { in Spanish, it sounds like a Latin taxon for an extinct critter }

About teaching: What do you guys think? Would I be able to teach kids in the countryside English or German? I'm going to have so much time off and I may be so bored...hahaha, after all, maybe I should listen to the monks. ß
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tierradenadie



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art wrote:


If i were to live in the mountains, though, I'd want a car.


hola art, aunque tengo un carné de conducir desde que casi treinta años, y, más o menos he estado manejando también, nunca he poseído un tanque ya. no me gustan. pero, tienes razón: a estar en una ciudad como nyc no es tanto difícil sin un auto. cuando vivo en el campo muchas cosas van a estar muy muy diferentes. sí, i am in for a culture-shock. por ejemplo: aquí, si quiero ir a comprar algo tarda veinte minutos vía la bici y entonces puedo obtener casi cualquiera. en asturias tengo que cambiar el chip. big time. las cosas van a ser {estar?} muy 'interesante' allá { pero, sí, es parte del reto }. cualquiera no lograré con la bici trataré organizar vía:
http://www.break-fresh-ground.com/photos/3864/3753/21/261176.jpg

{ you might have to scrape me off the road, tho, next time you come to asturias and go and cruise the hinterland, por lo tanto, por favor, lleva una espátula en tu mochila }

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Trans. Is

hi Art, Although I've had my driver's license for at least 30 years and I've been driving on and off, I've never had a tank. I don't like them. But you're right: living in a place like NYC is not difficult without a car.

When I move to the countryside a lot of things will change. Yes, I'm in for culture shock. For example, here [in NYC] it only takes 20 minutes for me to shop on my bike and I can find almost everything.

I'll have to change my chip when I'm in Asturias. Big time. Things are going to be exciting over there, but that's part of the challenge. Whatever I can't get done on my bike, I'll try to solve with this:
http://www.break-fresh-ground.com/photos/3864/3753/21/261176.jpg

{ you might have to scrape me off the road, tho, next time you come to asturias and go and cruise the hinterland, therefore, please have a spatula handy in your backpack }
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Art
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, Is has some very good friends in Puela d'Ayande who are part of a banda de gaites. If I had to recommend one thing, it would be to locate yourself close enough to a town so you could easily participate in a group like that. There are gaita bands in many towns, but normally in provincial capitals, I think.

-------------------------

Peter, Is tiene muy buenos amigos en Puela d'Ayande que forman parte de una banda de gaites. Si tuviera que recomendar una cosa, sería para localizarte lo suficientemente cerca a un pueblo para que podrías participar en un grupo así. Hay bandas de gaites en muchos pueblos, pero normalmente (creo) las capitales provinciales.
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tierradenadie



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Camin de Santiau Reply with quote

Is wrote:
Plenty of abandoned villages there to explore and get lost in...


esto me recuerda cuando hace años hice excursionismo por el parque de gerês en portugal { ¿alguien lo conoce? "}. bajé de una montaña y de pronto me encontré en una aldea abandonada, fui irreal, me sentí como pasar por un plató de cine, tal vez una cinta por tarkovski. no tuvo "tenido". unos pocos kilómetros después estuve frente a una carretera viva. más tarde una amiga me dijo que en el pasado los aldeanos solía mantener dos lugares, dos pueblos. uno en los montañas donde pasaba los veranos, y otro en el valle donde la gente 'hibernaba' { "überwintern", ha una similar palabra en castellano? }

¿hay muchos pueblos fantasmas en asturias?

¿y nadie hace nada?

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Trans. Is

That reminds me about a hiking trip years ago in the Geres national park of Portugal { has someone been there? }. I came down from a mountain and suddenly walked into this abandoned village. It was unreal, almost as if I'd walked into a film set, a film by Tarkovsky. Then, after a few kilometers, I was back in front of a 'live' road. A friend later told me that in the past village people had two residences or two locations. One was the village where they spent the summers and the other was where they lived through the winter { is there as similar word in Castilian Spanish to 'ueberwintern'? [to spend the winter months]}

Are there a lot of ghost villages in Asturias? Does no one do anything about them?
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tierradenadie



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art wrote:
Peter, Is has some very good friends in Puela d'Ayande who are part of a banda de gaites.


art, esto suena lindo » la problema podría ser que yo sueno no tan lindo con mi flauta dulce. pero estoy intentando a mejorar - i'm 'working' on it. es increíble, pensé que me había {hube?} olvidado todo desde cuando era un niño tocando la flauta. pero, supongo, es un poco como manejar un coche. a veces no lo uso por mucho tiempo, pero cada vez entro en él es como acabo de conducir ayer. otro ejemplo: montar de bici.... algunas cosas simplemente parecen no están alejándose.

p.d.: ¿podría traer para los gaiteanos { zugegeben, das wort ist auf meinem mist gewachsen - ok, i just pulled that term out of nowhere* } :
http://www.myvista.ch/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/3/4/3403773_1.jpg ?

servus, *tierradenadie
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tierradenadie



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Camin de Santiau Reply with quote

Quote:

Trans. Is That reminds me


munches gracies por traducirlo, iS, ja, da fällt mir obendrein ein daß ich eine ziemlich faule sau bin, soy un holgazán ( ¿por qué "la"?? ¿no hay hombres perezosos? o boy, castellano no impide a dejarme sin palabras ). pero ya es bastante a tratar a traducir inglés* en mi coco y componer algo en castellano. y, después, todo hacia atrás??

http://www.punkoryan.com/images/march03/Nes%20backflip.jpg
{ me duele sólo verlo }

* a propósito:

para aquellos quienes hablan varias lenguas: ¿cuál 'usáis', qué está operando, cuando pensáis? { yo: inglés }

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Trans. Is

Thank you for translating, Is. Yeah, it occurred to me that I've been quite a lazy-ass, that I'm lazy period ( Why is it feminine [Sau=sow] in German? Aren't men also lazy? Oh boy, Castilian is leaving me wordless). But it's hard enough for my head to translate into English. And then to work backwards?

http://www.punkoryan.com/images/march03/Nes%20backflip.jpg
{ it hurts me just to see it }

* by the way:

for those who speak several languages: Which one do you use when you are thinking? (in my case, it's English).
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is
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Camin de Santiau Reply with quote

tierradenadie wrote:
para aquellos quienes hablan varias lenguas: ¿cuál 'usáis', qué está operando, cuando pensáis? { yo: inglés }


Kommt auf die Sprache an. There is no equivalent to 'thoughtese' in language. Once thoughtese becomes a language, then you can label it. Language is a vehicle for expression, but not necessarily for thinking. In my case, most events are mediated by English. But anger at drivers, for example, is Asturian. Shopping lists are in German. Mental notes of things in Russia/Ukraine are in Russian. And so on...

Rural Asturias will be interesting for you, as people will try to communicate in Castilian Spanish, not a natural for them. You will also notice a certain disdain for their own local language and lilt, which has been learned at school and perpetuated by social conditioning. They shoot themselves in the foot to try and elevate their social standing, since Asturian and Galician are so denigrated by city folk.

That gets us into the political arena, which, in Spain, is dodgy. My take is that Spanish nationalists (who disingenuously brand themselves as 'citizens of the world') are backed by institutions in Asturias. So the voice of more rural-based, simple folk is often trampled over.

A pity that people there don't recognize that all languages are legitimate, none better than another. As you may know by now, Asturian (unlike Galician, Basque and Catalan) has not been legalized in Asturias. The main party opposing it is a party that thinks of itself as social-democratic (the PSOE of Asturias is called the FSA). The sheer irony of it...

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Depende de la l.lingua. Cuido qu’el pensamientu nun tien l.lingua. Namai de la que surden palabras pues pues pone-y un calificativu. L’idioma ia un vehiculo d’espresion, pero non el pensamientu (‘mentalese’ n’ingles). Nel miou casu, muitas cousas surden n’ingles, pero al volante salme l’asturianu de calea, pa dir mercar la fin de selmana faigo la llista n’aleman, pa cousas de Rusia/Ucraina, rusu, ya asina vei la vida…

L’Asturias rural vei ser d’interes pa ti porque la xente vei querer comunicase en castel.lan, que nun ia natural pa muitos. Dexuro que notas el despreciu que tienen dalgunos pola sua fala ya’l so mou d’espresase. Eso ia producto del colexu ya’l condicionamientu social. A los asturianos, da pena decilo pero ia verda, presta-ys disparase a los pias pensando que tan xugando col sou prestixu social al falar ‘mal’ (n’asturianu ou gal.lego).

Eso m’aveira al tarren politicu, que n’Espana ia una especie de l.lamuerga ermo. Na mia opinion, los nacionaliegos espanoles, que avezan chamase ‘ciudadanos del mundu’, tienen tres de si las istituciones asturianas. El resultau ia que la xente aldeano, xa estigmatizaos por falar ‘mal’ na sua l.lingua l.lariega, inda tan mas estrapayaos polos prexuicios istitucionales.

Tolas l.linguas tienen un valir, denguna mas que outra. Despueis de charrar con muitos de nos sabras que l’asturianu nun ia ‘llegal’ n’Asturias, nun tien un marcu xuridicu pa protexer a los falantes. Gal.legos, vascos ya catalanes vei decadas qu’oficializanon suas l.linguas vernaculas. N’Asturias, el partiu que brega a l’escontra de la llegalicacion de l’asturianu (el PSOE d’Asturias ou FSA) pretende inspirase na social-democracia europea. La ironia ia ablucante…


Last edited by is on Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:01 am; edited 4 times in total
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Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder from time to time how much our native language shapes and to some extent controls our thinking process. If we don't have a word for it, does the concept fall by the wayside? We are all born with a capacity for language, but the language(s) we learn early on in life certainly influences our ability to express ourselves across linguistic boundaries.

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Trans. Is

Yo tamien m'entrugo dacuandu como ye eso de la llingua materna y como dirixe el pensamientu. Si nun damos cola palabra pa una cosina, que-y pasa al concepto? Cai pol bardeiru? Toos nacemos cola capacida pa deprender un idioma, pero la llingua (o les llingues) que deprendemos de nenos influyen abondo na nuesa capacida d'espresanos altravies de les muries idiomatiques.
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