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Names end in "ez", "i" - Apellidos termi

 
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4461
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Names end in "ez", "i" - Apellidos termi Reply with quote

The "ez" at the end of a Spanish name usually means "son of ..." or "descendant of ....." [Anzu is going to explain the same principle in Asturian last names in a message below.]

So, surnames such as Fernández, Pérez, or Álvarez, originally, were a way of saying "son of Fernando", "son of Pero" (or Pedro), or "son of Álvaro."

There were a lot of Fernandos, Pedros, and Alvaros, so although there are many families with the same surnames, most of them are not related.

Even so, there are concentrations of surnames by region. You can see a surname concentrations in regions of Spain and Asturias with one of these tools:
http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3375

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El "ez" al final de un apellido español generalmente significa "hijo de ..." o "descendiente de ....." [Anzu va a explicar lo mismo con apellidos asturianos en un mensaje siguiente.]

Entonces, apellidos como Fernández, Pérez, o Álvarez, al principio, eran un modo de decir "hijo de Fernando", "hijo de Pero" (o Pedro), o "hijo de Álvaro".

Habían muchos Fernandos, Pedros, y Álvaros, entonces aunque hay muchas familias con los mismos apellidos, ;a mayoría no son relacionadas.

Aun así, hay concentraciones de apellidos por región. Se puede ver las concentraciones de un apellido en regiones de España y de Asturias con una de estos herramientas:
http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3375
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Anzu
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Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 131
Location: Xixón, Asturies

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Apellíos/ Surnames Reply with quote

Pa entamar, da-y les gracies a Art por camentame esti alderique so los apellíos, que albidro pue ser daqué interesante.

Munchos apellíos, como Martínez o González, d'orixe español, son tamién comunes n'Asturies. Pero pola escontra, equí nun s'emplega la terminación "ez" que quier dicir "fíu de", sinon que ye avezao qu'apaeza la terminación "i".

Asina, apellíos españoles o comunes con Asturies, talos como Fernández o Pérez, n'asturianu seríen Fernandi ya Peri. El significáu ye'l mesmu, vien a dicir "fíu de". Esti fenómenu dase en cuasi toles fasteres d'Asturies, pero ye de tener en cuenta que ye un fenómenu llingüísticu ya non cultural.

Digo esto porque hai otros munchos apellíos d'aniciu asturianu que son más comunes en caúna les fasteres y que nunlos hai en España. Dalgunos exeplos son: Arboleya, Magadan, Felechosa, Bermeyu, Monteserín...

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Firstly, thank Art to make me know about this topic about the surnames, because I think that it could be interesting.

Lots of surnames like Martínez or González, with an Spanish origin, are also common in Asturies. But on the contrary, here there isn't the "ez" ending (son of), here is common the "i" ending.

According to this, Spanish surnames or in common with Asturies like Fernández or Pérez, in Asturian they'd be "Fernandi" and "Peri". The meaning is the same, it means "son of". This phenomenon appears in almost all the parts of Asturies, but it has to be noticed that it's a linguistical phenomenon and not a cultural one.

I say this because there are lots of other surnames with a propper Asturian origin that are specially common in each county and they're not in Spain at all. Some examples are: Arboleya, Magadan, Felechosa, Bermeyu, Monteserín...
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Villamil



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Uviéu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know that Asturian patronymics used -i as suffix instead of -ez, do you have any source to consult, Anzu?. It really makes sense anyway, considering the amount of places ended that way; Canteli, Esteli, Carrandi, Llamasandi, Villameri... It seems Latin genitive survived here somehow better, It would be nice to use those versions instead of the Castilian ones. I suppose in Galicia happened the same; at least I know that many Sueiro became Suárez.

In Catalonia, for example, many people got back their original surnames. I would like to use the original and native spelling of my surnames.

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Nun sabía que los patronímicos asturianos emplegaben -i como sufixu envede -ez, tiés dalguna fonte de consulta, Anzu? De cualisquier forma, tien xacíu considerando la cantidá de llugares fináos desta miente: Canteli, Esteli, Carrandi, Llamasandi, Villameri... Abúltame un xenitivu llatinu que sobrevivió dalguna mena. Taría prestoso l'emplegar eses versiones envede les castellanes. Camiento que'n Galicia pasó lo mesmo; a lo menos sé que munchos Sueiro ficiéronse Suárez.

En Cataluña, por exemplu, muncha xente tornó a los sos apellíos orixinales. Prestaríame emplegar la forma orixinal ya nativa de los mios apellíos.
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Anzu
Translator


Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 131
Location: Xixón, Asturies

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good sources could be any book about linguistical topic from the ALLA (Academia de la Llingua Asturiana/Academy of the Asturian Language) or any book about asturian antropology and culture. I'm afraid I don't remember just now any title of them, but I'll have a look if you're interested.

Anyway, it's important to notice that some Asturian surnames like those you said are different. The "i" suffix is somentimes just an ending of ancien surname and they come from earlier times.

The origin, as you said, comes from the Latin, which evolved in different ways depending to the place: in Spain appeared the "ez" form, in Asturies the "i" and in Galicia "eiro", but that-s another topic.

I totally agree with you, it's very important to use our own traditional forms of our surnames. If anybody want to know his "propper" surname, just tell me and I'll have a look to my books about that.

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Dalgunes bones fontes sedría cualisquier llibru sobre sociollinguística de la ALLA (Academia de la Llingua Asturiana) o dalgún ortu sobre antropoloxçia ya cultura asturiana. Tarrezo que nun m'alcuerdo agora mesmo de dengún títulu, pero echaré una gueyá si tas interesáu.

De toes formes, ye perimportante dase cuenta que dalgunos de los apellíos como los que comentaste son destremaos. El sufixu "i"ye a vegaes namái que'l cabu d'apellíos antiguos propios d'otres dómines.

L'aniciu como dixiste, ta nel Llatín, que desendolcose de menes destremaes dependiendo'l llugar: n'España apaeció la forma"ez", n'Asturies la "i" ya en Galicia "eiro", pero eso ya ye otru tema.

Toi dafechu dalcuerdu contigo, ye perimportante facer usu de les formes tradicionales de los nuesos apellíos. Si daquién quier saber el so apellíu propiamente, na so forma correcha, que me lo diga ya echaré una gueyá a dellos llibros que teo so´l tema.
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Villamil



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 42
Location: Uviéu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, Anzu Wink. Knowing the ALLA has published researches on this topic, I'll seek some tittles. It's really interesting. Anyway if we tried to change our surnames to the original spelling, I'm sure it wouldn't be understood correctly. I mean, If I did it, I would be trying to recover a part of my cultural heritage, not trying to make me different from the rest of Spaniards. I tell this digression to analyze the consequences of that kind of recovery, given the troubles that this country has with cultural pluralism.

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Gracies pola iinfo, Anzu Wink. En sabiendo que l'ALLA asoleyú l.libros sobro esti tema, cataré del.los títulos. Ye veramente porgoyosu. Sicasí si quixéramos camudar los nuesos apel.líos a la forma orixinal, de xuru que nun sedría pescanciu. Quiero dicir, si lo ficiera, taria revilvando una parte del mio patriminiu cultural, nun catando por diferenciame del restu españoles. Faigo esti comentariu pa atalantar sobro les consecuencies d'esta clas de revilvamientu, pola mor de los problemas que tien esti país pa col pluralismu cultural.
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Ayandés



Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

La terminación -ez/-iz tamién ye (o igual hai que dicir meyor "foi") asturiana. Toi fartu de trescribir documentos medievales asturianos y n'asturiano con apellíos como martíniz, lopez, doménguez, ferrándiz o fernándiz, rodríguiz, etc... Yo nun toi mui metíu nesto de l'antroponimia pero ehí cuido qu'hai una perda normal y corriente de la -z final, que ye mui normal na nuestra llingua. Nun sería raro que les dos formes tuvieren vives agora, ye dicir, que nunos llugares conserven la -z y n'otros non. En castellano ye fácil que pase lo mesmo, agora tengo les mios duldes de si había zones u tamién cai la -z final esa pero pue ser que sí.

Vamos, qu'esto igual que la toponimia, nun ye que la xente tenga apellíos castellanos nin castellanizaos (anque tamién hai casos), lo que pasa la mayoría de les veces ye que la llingua escrita ye más conservadora que la llingua oral y por eso queda esa -z final que yá nun se pronuncia pero qu'existió.

Y hasta onde sé eso vien efectivamente del xenitivu latín y quier dicir "fíu de ...". Dalgunos d'esos apellíos tán sobretoo n'Asturies y Llión, como Álvarez y Menéndez (con versión gallega Méndez). Lo que vien a dicir esto ye que los nomes Álvaro y Menendo yeren bien normales na Edá Media d'estes tierres.
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zapico



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 14
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about prefixes, like "Za"?
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Terechu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1551
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no prefix "za" as such, but in case you wondered, a zapicu in Asturias is the very specific sheath that holds the file for sharpening cutting tools, most especially the ever present scythe.
I'll try to find a picture.
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Art
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 4461
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Terechu!

We have at least one member, Ana Zapico, with that apellido.
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Terechu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1551
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And my mom! Smile
The Zapicos of the Nalón valley were at one time incredibly successful, genetically speaking. In the census of 1586 there were seven Zapicos in the parish of La Canga (Ciaño-Langreo), since only the heads of the households were registered, this means that 7 families in that small parish owned enough land and cattle to allow them to thrive.
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Bob
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: ez versis iz Reply with quote

The Latin second declension genitive singular ends in the letter i (with a marker over it to indicate a long sound). SERVI is the form for the word SERVUS, which means, slave, serf or possibly servant. Since one function of the genitive is to show possession or belonging, Martínez indicates the son of Martín. Martíniz would mean the same thing. I'm not sure if the pronunciation shifts from Latin to Asturian, but Martínez leaves the mouth relaxed while Martíniz tightens it, and - to me at least - seems more forced and less likely to be retained as a pronunciation, especially since Latin marks emphasis with a longer vowel, while Asturian does so with a more strongly stressed vowel.

I should point out that my Latin dates from my early high school days, when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
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