DRAE en las noticias/in the news

If you can't figure out where else to post, say it here.<br>
Si no sabes dónde poner tu tema, pongalo aquí.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Eli
Moderator
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Luray, VA. US
asturias_and_me:

DRAE en las noticias/in the news

Post by Eli »

After reading the news on
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 03,00.html
you know I just had to look up the words they speak of in the Diccionario de la Real Academia Española... frankly I see nothing wrong with any of those words, except maybe Gitano and Gallego (although funny understandable) so what's the fuss all about?

------------------------

Despues de leer la noticia en
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 03,00.html
tuve que buscar las palabras que tanto alboroto estan causando, realmente no veo nada de malo en ninguna de ellas, excepto talvez por Gitano. Asi que, a que se debe tanta bulla?

pd. las palabras a las que algunos Españoles se oponen son Gitano, Judio / Judaismo, homosexuales, Gallegos (gallego es gracioso y talvez lo entiendo)
User avatar
Art
Site Admin
Posts: 4490
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:50 am
Location: Maryland
asturias_and_me:

Post by Art »

That's an interesting article, Elí.

Terechu, who often rails against PC thinking, will be interested in it, too, although I suppose her recent comment on your message about the biology of sexual desire could be considered PC.

A dictionary has to list the words people use in a descriptive and non-partisan manner. Otherwise the rest of us won't be able to figure out what the words mean!

----------------

Eso es un artículo muy interesante, Elí.

Terechu, que frecuentemente clama contra el pensamiento PC [correcto políticamente], será interesada en este, también, aunque supongo que su comentario reciente sobre tu mensaje sobre la biología del deseo sexual se podría considerado PC.

Un diccionario tiene que enumerar el uso de la gente de las palabras de una manera descriptiva e independiente [no partisano]. ¡Si no el resto de nosotros no podremos entender que significan las palabras!
User avatar
Terechu
Moderator
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:43 am
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS
asturias_and_me:

Post by Terechu »

This article is very superficial and does not reflect the reasons why gypsies, women's groups, Jews, etc. are complaining.

The row is about some of the definitions that are still used in the Dictionary of the RAE.
For instance their definition of "orphan" has angered women for generations:

"Dícese de la persona de menor edad a quien se le han muerto el padre y la madre, o uno de los dos, especialmente el padre" (a person under age whose father and mother have died, or one of the two, especially the father.) :shock:

Gypsy: there are several correct definitions as to their origins, but then there's also this one: "que estafa u obra con engaño" (someone who defrauds or swindles)

I found nothing negative on Galicians in my edition of the Dictionary,

Jews: the definitions are correct, but then there's the word "judiada" defined as: "acción mala que tendenciosamente se consideraba propia de judíos". (Evil act which was tendentiously considered typical of Jews).

We have to bear in mind, however, that it's not for the RAE's to manipulate or invent our language, they merely have to record and define the meanings. In other words, whilst they cannot remove the word "judiada", because it exists, they can perfectly well change the definition of "orphan".
User avatar
Art
Site Admin
Posts: 4490
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:50 am
Location: Maryland
asturias_and_me:

Post by Art »

In English we sometimes use the word "gypsy" to mean someone who is crooked or footloose. So if a dictionary left that out, it wouldn't be recording how native speakers actually use the word. That'd be dishonest.

Is the word "orphan" used in Castilian for a child who has lost only their father or only their mother? That's not a likely use of the word in English. We'd only use the word if both parents were dead.

Maybe groups that don't like the way the words are used should be trying to convince the rest of us that those uses aren't acceptable. Well, even that's not really likely to succeed. All that complaining seems like a waste of breath, but I guess each of us has to fill our lives with some purpose... and here I am wasting these letters!

----------------

En inglés a veces utilizamos la palabra “gitano” para significar a alguien que sea sinvergüenza o libre y sin compromiso. Entonce si un diccionario omitiera eso, no estaría registrando cómo los nativos realmente utilizan la palabra. Sería deshonesto.

¿Es la palabra “huérfano” usado en castellano para un niño quien ha perdido solamente su padre o solamente su madre? Ése no es un uso probable de la palabra en inglés. Utilizaríamos la palabra solamente si ambos padres han muerto.

Quizá si no les gustan la manera en que se utilizan unas palabras, estos grupos deben intentar convencer todos nosotros que esas aplicaciones no sean aceptables. Pues claro, es poco probable que tuvieran éxito. ¡Todos esa queja me parece una pérdida de viento, pero supongo que cada uno de nosotros tiene que llenar la vida con un cierto propósito… y aquí estoy gastando estas letras!
User avatar
Terechu
Moderator
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:43 am
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS
asturias_and_me:

About PC / a vueltas con la corrección política

Post by Terechu »

I still consider PC expressions either cynical or downright ridiculous (hearing impaired instead of deaf!!!), but then again they are the lesser evil. The current “everything goes” trend of lashing out against anybody using gross language is becoming an issue even between countries.

Just a recent example: the conduct of Spanish football hooligans insulting France’s team was intolerable. Never in history has anyone whistled and booed other people’s national anthem, as they did when the Marseillaise was played at the beginning of the France-Spain match. Before that, outside the stadium, these nazis had crowded around the French team’s bus insulting the black players and making monkey sounds. The Spanish sports magazine “Marca” had been insulting French-Algerian player Zidane throughout the preceding week.
The good part: they managed to get the French team in a rage and they beat the crap out of us! So much for Nostradamus!

Spaniards are now hated in Kameroon and probably all of Africa, in France and in all Arab countries. I think I prefer PC anytime!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sigo creyendo que las expresiones políticamente correctas son cínicas o sencillamente ridículas (discapacidad auditiva en vez de sordera!!!), pero por otra parte también son el peor de los males. La tendencia actual del “todo vale” que consiste en cebarse con cualquiera utilizando el lenguaje más soez se está convirtiendo en una cuestión incluso entre países.

Un pequeño ejemplo reciente: la conducta de los hinchas de fútbol españoles insultando al equipo de Francia fue absolutamente intolerable. Nunca jamás en la historia se había silbado y abucheado el himno nacional de otro país, como hicieron los españoles cuando sonó La Marsellesa antes del partido España-Francia. Antes de esto, fuera del estadio, estos nazis fueron a esperar el autobús del equipo francés y les recibieron con insultos racistas a los jugadores negros y sonidos de mono. El períodico Marca se dedicó a insultar a Zidane los días anteriores.
Lo mejor es que lo único que consiguieron fue cabrear tanto a los franceses que nos dieron como para el zorro! Profecías de Nostradamus no obstante!

A los españoles ahora nos odian en Camerún y probablemente toda Africa, en Francia y en todos los países árabes. Creo que prefiero el lenguaje PC!
User avatar
Xose
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:13 pm
Location: Washington, D.C.
asturias_and_me:

Post by Xose »

The racism is Spanish football stands (and on the Seleccion's sidelines, I might add) is out of hand. The Italians used to be the standard-bearer for "idiotic European racists," but now the Spaniards are seemingly bent on taking over that dubious title. It's disgraceful. :evil:
User avatar
Art
Site Admin
Posts: 4490
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:50 am
Location: Maryland
asturias_and_me:

Post by Art »

It is disgraceful.

Although I'm not happy to admit this, I agree when Terechu says, "I think I prefer PC anytime!" Maybe what we're really looking for a society in which we are sensitive to each other without ignoring or denying realities.

------------------
Sí, es vergonzoso.

Aunque no me gusta confesarlo, estoy de acuerdo con lo que Terechu dice, "Creo que prefiero el lenguaje PC!" Quizá lo que buscamos sea una sociedaden que estemos muy consciente un al otro sin ignorar o negar las realidades.
User avatar
Eli
Moderator
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Luray, VA. US
asturias_and_me:

Post by Eli »

Hmm yeah I agree with that Art, but I would qualify it. PC is better when used within a medium to large group, anything larger than 6 people. Other than that, one should say what he/she thinks, of course good manners must always prevail.

I don't think I've ever heard the word orphan used to refer to somebody that lost only one parent, it is possible that it is a relatively new Spaniard construct.

--------

Tienes razon Art, pero yo le pondria un calificativo. El usar un lenguaje que sea politicamente correcto es mejor cuando estamos hablando de un grupo mediano o mas grande, cualquier grupo de mas de 6 personas. Fuera de eso me parece uno deberia decir lo que piensa, porsupuesto guardando las cortecias y buena educacion.

No me parece que he escuchado la palabra huerfano utilizada para describir a una persona que halla perdido solo al padre o madre, es posible que se trate de un idiomismo Español relativamente nuevo.
User avatar
Eli
Moderator
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Luray, VA. US
asturias_and_me:

Post by Eli »

Terechu "(hearing impaired instead of deaf!!!)," hearing impaired is used for those that have lost some hearing but are not deaf. Deaf people can't hear at all.

------------------
[Ya que esto talvez tenga un uso propio en el Castellano de España es posible que este comentario se aplique en Ingles pero no en Castellano. Habiendo dicho eso la traduccion ]

Terechu "(discapacidad auditiva en vez de sordera!!!)" discapacidad auditiva se usa para aquellos que han perdido cierta capacidad auditiva pero no son sordos. Los sordos no pueden oir en absoluto.
User avatar
Terechu
Moderator
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:43 am
Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS
asturias_and_me:

Post by Terechu »

Gotcha, Eli. However, my mom was almost deaf in one ear and she used to say she was just that: "almost deaf in one ear" - not "hearing impaired in one ear". :D
A rose is a rose by any other name :D

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ya te entiendo, Eli, pero mi madre estaba casi sorda de un oído y decía "estoy casi sorda de un oído" - y no "tengo una discapacidad auditiva en un oído". :D
Una rosa siempre será una rosa, da igual cómo la llames. :D
User avatar
Xose
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:13 pm
Location: Washington, D.C.
asturias_and_me:

Post by Xose »

From a Washingtonpost.com article on the racial diversity of the French World Cup squad:

"This year's World Cup has been largely free of racist incidents. An exception was monkey chanting by Spanish fans before France's June 27 game against Spain. France won it, 3-1."

Jolín. :evil:
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion - Discusión general”